Fui; No Online Sales After

Last night I seen the 1st TV commercial where a Lawyer is saying. If Vaping has caused you health problems call us. This is ridiculous, the people dying and getting sick from Vaping is caused from the Drugs they add to the juice.

I am so upset that the NEWS MEDIA is running this every day and they fail to add that in a resent poll of these deaths, illnesis, etc. 75% of the people admit they add THC to the juice and 25% admitting THC is all they vape with.

If the GOV. was getting tax revenue from all Vaping products you would have no GOV WAR ON VAPING. Its all about the FEDS loosing tax dollars and Tobacco companies loss of sales.  

VAPING TESTIMONIAL
I smoked for over 50 years and it got to the point where I could barely breathe. I knew I had to quit but I also knew I had no will power to do so. Then 6 years ago I tried vaping and it literally saved my life. I still got my nicotine fix and could finally breathe easier and I was not inhaling all those harmful chemicals. I know taking anything into your lungs is harmful but vaping really is the lesser of two evils. And speaking of evils look at these statistics:
Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year
68,557 people died in 2018 of an opioid overdose
in 2017, 39,773 people in the US lost their lives at the point of a gun
In 2016, 10,497 people died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes
30,000 deaths were the result of domestic abuse world wide in 2018.
There are 2,200 alcohol poisoning deaths in the US each year.
so in the last year 631,027 died of unnatural causes, extrapolated over six years that is 3,786,162 deaths
1978 to 1995 a total of 37 Americans were killed by falling vending machines
There have been six confirmed deaths connected to vaping across the US
of these two were from lithium batteries exploding and not the vaping itself
and two were from people experimenting by adding dangerous chemicals to their e-cigarettes.
So in reality only two people died due to vaping.
and you pick vaping as a just cause. Really? where are your values and priorities?
more people die each year from choking or acts of stupidity than vaping.
Of all these causes you could get behind why are you picking the least dangerous and offensive one? I think it's time people learned to pick their battles.
so, 480,000 deaths by cigarettes and why doesn't the government care? Here's why, because for every smoker that dies a new smoker starts. And tobacco is such a cash cow the government doesn't want it to disappear. In Canada the average taxes on a carton of cigarettes is 65%, in the US the taxes are around 45%. That's a lot of free cash. But, if people switch to vaping there are no taxes associated with it. There are no health concerns, it is purely greed.
Here is the thing about statistics: you can make up anything you want or manipulate the facts to get your point of view across. Why? Because they can't be verified. So all the government does is use scare tactics and people are gullible enough to believe it. They have no scientific proof to back up their claims, it is all BS.
Vaping is a much safer alternative to smoking, so why don't they shut down the tobacco industry? MONEY!! MONEY!! MONEY!!
I will defend vaping over cigarettes forever.  

I was surprised by this chart that I recently came across.

It shows that the USA is the biggest market by far for vape products.

There are still over a billion, old fashioned tobacco smokers in the world. Vaping has been around for many years already, yet there are only slightly over 40 million vapers in the world, of which I am proud to call myself a part of that wise group.

With all of the anti-vape propaganda and nonsense taking place, it seems that there is a movement out there to keep those billion+ cig smokers hooked on their cigs and also to deny the 40+ million vapers out there the freedom and the choice to remain cig free.

I guess it's better that millions of people die from cancer, because vaping is just pure evil and the work of satan, or something like that. Oh, and think about the kids. Nevermind the kids who would previously just start smoking plain old regular cigarettes before vaping ever existed. That was never a big deal.

Here is the chart I found showing the top vape markets in the world.

And notice how there are no third world countries on the list? Isn't vaping banned in India? That's insane. That country has a huge population. How stupid of them. Their actions are contributing to the deaths and diseases of an awful lot of people.


And here is a link to the article which the chart came from:

How many people vape?  

Someone needs to produce a detailed documentary about the documented research about how safe vaping is. Hopefully that will give the general public as well as potential new vapers some education about what is safe and what isn't.

The contaminated products that are circulating on the black market are what's killing people.

Something of this magnitude needs to be put out in the media otherwise I'm afraid that this industry will die out and a lot of shops will go out of business. It's time to take action, the media has demonized vaping. It's come to a point where most folks can't vape in public in peace.

What are your thoughts on how to combat this issue? It's terrible what has happened to everyone that has been sickened or died as a result of vaping bad products. The CDC and FDA can't seem to get a handle on what's really the culprit and the media isn't giving us any details.

I feel perfectly fine as I've been vaping for almost 10 years now and I feel great in fact never better since I quit smoking cigarettes. Now I'm a bit paranoid and wonder if I should just give up vaping. This whole this is getting to me and I can't even vape around my family in peace now.  

I know that there are threads covering bans in individual states, but I thought it might be a good idea to have a thread which covers all state bans.

So far, I know of the temporary, but complete ban, in Massachusetts, and a flavor ban announced in Michigan, Washington state, and Rhode Island. The New York ban is not in effect yet, but will be on October 4, I believe. Not sure about the other three states.


If there are more states which I'm not aware of, please list them.

New York Bans Sale of Flavored E-cigarettes, the First State in the U.S. to Do So

Rhode Island Governor Bans Sales Of Flavored Vaping Products

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/09/24/massachusetts-ban-all-vaping-product-sales-months-toughest-state-crackdown/

Michigan's flavored vaping ban in effect: Here are the new rules  

There is a lot of stigma around buying products from China and most recently I have been asked by many vaping friends. How I get my products so cheap...simple buy direct. They didn’t quite understand as they thought the products were either fake or 2nd due to the price.

So I’ve been recommending CIGABUY company I’ve used for over a year. I really cannot falter their fast shipping to the UK ranges from 4-7days depending on local delivery etc. Some say but I need coils now! Plan ahead its much cheaper and in the long run it will save you money.

I ordered two sets of coils for £19 and when I went to a local shop they basically wanted £30, but had a back log from thier supplier, 2weeks wait! Im not trying to put custom off the local shops at all just sometimes if you cannot get hold of coils it maybe easier. And most I’ve been too have recommended wholesalers. It wont put them out of business over a couple of sets of coils as I know only 20% of people choose this option. But for the likes of people who cant afford the higher expense its a good option


Hope this helps

See link CigaBuy

And have a good look round for more options happy vaping  

India bans e-cigarettes over youth vaping fears - CNN

Sitharaman added that the ban would cover e-cigarette production, manufacturing, import, export, transport, sale, distribution, storage and advertisement. It includes all forms of ENDS, heat-not-burn products and e-hookah devices, according to a press release.

People who violate the ban once could face up to one year in prison or a fine of 100,000 rupees ($1,400) or both. For subsequent offenses, the penalty would be five years imprisonment and a fine of 500,000 rupees ($7,000). Storing e-cigarettes would also be punishable with up to six months in prison and a 50,000-rupee ($700) fine. ​

More links ...
India bans vaping All You Didn't Know About E-Cigarettes. Nirmala Sitharaman's Explainer India bans e-cigarettes as vaping backlash grows Jeez they really take 'tough on crime' stance to a new level. Don't get caught with hardware if traveling to India (or taking a connecting flight from India). Btw, that's 1.4 Billion people removed from Juul and iQOS market.  

Hi,
I apologize in advance if this is a question that has been discussed a lot, but the problem is that what I’ve read doesn’t seem to make sense: We know from experience that vaping PG/VG based juices are safe to vape, so I don’t wanna talk about that. However, when I read (in articles as well as here in the forum) that they have been vaping THC , I have to say that this kind of stuff has been consumed in vaporized form for quite a while now, probably since before people started vaping PG/VG. So it doesn’t make sense to me that all of sudden, vaping THC is killing people.
Do we have an explanation for these cases that actually makes sense?  

Copied from another group.
With permission

I am the owner of Sapphyre Nicotine. I have been in the e-cig and vape business since 2009. This post is a little long but hopefully it is informative for some.

In 2009 the FDA started seizing shipments of electronic cigarettes under the claim that they were drug delivery devices and therefore need to pass FDA approval prior to being marketed and sold in the USA. The industry was just starting out and this was a big blow. Shipments of product were not allowed to enter the USA. Credit card companies were not allowing ecig companies to work with them. It was not looking good for ecigs. A company called Smoking Everywhere sued the FDA and made the argument that ecigs should be regulated as a tobacco product since they contained nicotine which is derived from Tobacco. Njoy joined the litigation and eventually took over when Smoking Everywhere went out of business. In 2010 Njoy won the litigation and ecigs ended up being regulated as tobacco products. This was the best outcome of two evils. The FDA appealed the decision and lost that as well. That’s when the ecig industry really started taking off. Bigger players got into the market and eventually RJR, Altria/Philip Morris, BAT and other big tobacco companies came out with ecig products. They quickly became the dominant sellers in c-stores. The tobacco companies were happy selling tobacco and menthol flavors only. That’s what they knew and that’s what they were good at.

A few years later eliquids and open systems started getting popular. These products were not very popular in c-stores. That is when vape stores started opening up. They were mainly concentrating on open system (eliquids, mods and great tasting flavors). For a short time c-stores tried to sell eliquids, but they didn’t have the know how or the time to educate customers. C-stores were good at selling closed systems and vape stores were good at open systems.

To the uninformed public we are all lumped in as one industry --- electronic cigarettes.

In reality there are 2 different industries that are somewhat related.

A) The ecig/closed system industry: In the USA as of Sep 2019 is a $6.4 billion industry. It is controlled mostly by big tobacco companies. Juul (Altria/PM), Blu (Imperial Tobacco), Vuse (British Tobacco, formerly RJR), Njoy (only independent supplier), Logic (Japan International). 75% of ecigs are sold in C-Stores, drug stores and food stores. As a comparison, regular cigarette sales in the USA are around $80 billion dollars and about 75% comes from c-stores.

While ecigs sales increased at a 40% year over year rate, regular cigarette sales dropped by 7% year over year. That is a large number that is troubling to big tobacco.

The closed system industry sells primarily tobacco and menthol/mint flavors. If flavors were banned it would not impact the industry very much. The companies selling closed systems are not going to join our fight to save flavors. They have no monetary incentive to do so. In addition all of these companies are going to apply for PMTA. They are not going to sue the FDA and risk getting PMTA approval unless it greatly impacts their business.

The vapor/open system industry: In the USA as of sep 2019 is a $2.6 billion industry. It is NOT controlled by a few large companies. There are a lot of hardware and ejuice suppliers. It is mostly sold at adult only vape stores. $1.7 Billion sold at vape stores, $350 million in c-stores and $550 million online. Lots of suppliers, distributors, small businesses are part of this industry. They mostly sell flavored eliquid as opposed to tobacco and menthol flavors.

Having been involved with both the ecig business and the vape business, I can say that they are completely different. The vape industry is getting punished for crimes committed by the ecig industry. Unfortunately we are being lumped in as one. We are the easier one to target. We need to do a much better job getting this message out.

I would also like to make a point regarding zero nicotine flavors being regulated by the FDA. The reason our industry is regulated by the FDA as a tobacco product is because the eliquid contains nicotine. This is the only reason the FDA has authority over these products. Because zero nicotine ejuice does not contain nicotine, it is no longer a tobacco product. While the FDA is going to try and enforce regulation of zero nicotine ejuice as a tobacco product by using the “intent to use” rationale, that argument is simply not valid. The FDA will also not be able to regulate zero nicotine ejuice as a drug/drug device combination either. Ejuice with no nicotine does not cause a change in the body and therefore will not be classified as a drug. This is only my educated opinion. I am not an attorney and am not making any legal claims.

I hope this was somewhat informative to people that have not been involved with ecigs and vapes as long as I have. Feel free to add, correct if you have information that I missed.

Feel free to share  

Here in Oregon we have several bills that, if passed, would more or less make vaping illegal in its current form, and I know this isn't just happening here. I have to wonder how far they will be able to go with the bans and regulations, how "effective" they will be and how best to prepare for them. I think it's likely they will make high concentration nicotine solutions impossible to obtain for consumers, so at the least, it's probably a good call to stock up on unflavored nicotine, especially considering that whatever ejuice they do allow will no doubt be taxed to the point of being unaffordable.

The rest of their proposed bans would, in my mind (hopefully) be ineffectual in the long term. They want to ban flavored ejuice, but if the juice is zero nicotine, I don't see how they could get away with that since of course they can't ban PG, VG, or flavors, they just couldn't get away with that, yet, and the same goes for things like kanthal and cotton/rayon, too many uses outside of vaping.

They want to ban online sales from vape companies to our state which we all know would be a devastating blow to vapers. As for mechanical/regulated mods and other gear, what's to stop companies from selling them with a disclaimer that they are intended only for ornamental purposes, or for zero nic juice. What's to stop a vape shop from renaming itself "Functional Mechanical and Electronic Galleries" who operate on the assumption that people only use their products to vape zero nic juice.

It's insane to me that in a country that glorifies alcohol abuse, and has finally started to see the light on decriminalizing ........., that all this hysteria comes up about vaping, which is possibly the most benign chemical someone could enjoy (probably better for you than caffeine) and has given millions a way of breaking free from a habit that is far worse... you think the world is getting somewhere, but then something new comes out and the same old ignorance and fear rears its ugly head all over again, which is in turn milked by our politicians and backed by big tobacco, it all seems to be coming together for a perfect storm and it's not looking good in Oregon.

Your thoughts, what are you doing to prepare? What do you think is necessary?