Flavors Out.. Tobaccos In.

Why ? - The many varieties of devices, flavors, and nicotine strengths still available in many places not contaminated by the political whores who apparently hate all tobacco so much that they are willing to jeopardize the lives of many thousands, if not millions, of ex and even current smokers, by killing off the vape industry in favor of their hypocritical agendas of tobacco control.

The fact that vaping tobacco has been proven to be less toxic than lit tobacco products is, to them, all the more reason to restrict and eventually eliminate it. {As has been done in India where all vaping is a crime}

Vaping has been and is still being used by many to wean their way off of nicotine by gradually lowering nicotine concentration - For others who do not want to quit completely vaping offers a much safer alternative to the toxic stew present in lit tobacco, especially cigarettes.

And the fact that vaping for flavor with zero nicotine is available - seems to give them all the more reason to outlaw flavors ?!??!?!

Do they know what they are doing you may ask? - Sure they do, and its all about money. Apparently they make more in tax revenues from old fashioned cigarettes - Still as tax rates go up everywhere on vape products, they may decide there is enough to be made to keep it legal. But don't fool yourself, it has nothing to do with 'saving the children'. In a nation where it may soon become easier, in some places, to buy marijuana than tobacco - I ask who is going to save the children from the political whores who can no longer keep following the mantra that "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

Who will save the children from them ?

And no I am not against marijuana legalization - but still must point out that tobacco, a mental stimulant, is being downgraded by a drug often used to get 'stoned'

Maybe this is what they want - Not a thinking population of voters - When a stoned population is easier to fool!  

Vaping is a multi-billion dollar per year industry. Once the USG reigns-in the industry, who will acquire the rights to it? Will there be more than one? Big tobacco? My money is on Amazon.  

Posting here because that's normally where I have. I was at a point where I was going to dive into DIY. I don't vape the sweet stuff but was ready to make the plunge into mixing. But I've seen posts from members here who said they vape unflavored juice so I thought I might give it a shot...thank you sooo much! This is it for me! Sorry but I can't remember who you are however I'm grateful for the info provided. It was as one poster mentioned...a true cig feel..for me also.
I'm gonna hunt for a local vaper who might need some flavors...donated . My flavors aren't extensive as many since I was a tobacco flavored vaper. I must mention as a never before mixer I did order flavors that were probably way outside my preferred tobacco flavors..area code 70726.  

I smoked menthol cigarettes for 45+ years. Never cared for the taste or smell of cigarette tobacco, but I liked my menthol. When I tried Blu ecigs, the tobacco didn't taste like tobacco, it just tasted "meh". The menthol flavor was more meh with a mentholesque hint, and they were a freaking hassle. When I finally realized this weird vaporizer shop across the street from the hospital and next to the ambulance company actually sold E-cigarettes, not those things you steam up a room with Vick's Vapo-Rub, I went in and told them about my experience with Blu's and asked if they had anything better. I walked out with an eGo starter kit, some fruit flavors, and some menthol and mint juice to mix with them. Success! Got my menthol/nicotine fix and was able to put down the combustibles! For a year and a half I've been doing the same thing only DYI: Fruit and menthol and/or mint. Just had to have that menthol feel or it didn't do the trick for me.

Last week I got a bunch of new flavors from MFS. I mixed up some desert coffee and a key lime pie concoction, no menthol or mint, and it was GOOD!

Now if only somebody would tell this stupid spell checker there is no "u" in flavor!  

Teddy Bears what? I am going to get to that very quickly...

So the whole premise behind the 'flavor' ban seems to be premised on the idea that tobacco flavors are acceptable, but fruit/candy flavors might entice our teen children. Our children, as we refer to them, about to be 18 year old legal 'Adults' in the USA in a short period of time, 18, age enough to join the military, will find the flavor of tobacco so offensive, that they will be unable to handle it?

"Son/Daughter, are you vaping? No way mom, tobacco is so icky! Can I have another bowl of fruit loops?"

It reminds me of coffee, and how many here thought their first cup of coffee was kind of nasty tasting, but you grew into it, even enjoy it? Somehow though Starbucks has survived and thrived. Did you know that coffee can raise your heart rate? Maybe we should keep feeding our teens the McDonald's child meals, because you know, the flavors get to be more challenging as you grow up. (yes I am being very facetious).

Is this really the way we see our teenagers now? No flavors but candy/fruit will entice them, and Teddy Bears of course, teens don't outgrow their stuffed animals either.

This is our government's solution though, ban flavors other then tobacco. It's so deeply incorrect in premise, it's hard to even argue why it's flawed.  

Copied from another group.
With permission

I am the owner of Sapphyre Nicotine. I have been in the e-cig and vape business since 2009. This post is a little long but hopefully it is informative for some.

In 2009 the FDA started seizing shipments of electronic cigarettes under the claim that they were drug delivery devices and therefore need to pass FDA approval prior to being marketed and sold in the USA. The industry was just starting out and this was a big blow. Shipments of product were not allowed to enter the USA. Credit card companies were not allowing ecig companies to work with them. It was not looking good for ecigs. A company called Smoking Everywhere sued the FDA and made the argument that ecigs should be regulated as a tobacco product since they contained nicotine which is derived from Tobacco. Njoy joined the litigation and eventually took over when Smoking Everywhere went out of business. In 2010 Njoy won the litigation and ecigs ended up being regulated as tobacco products. This was the best outcome of two evils. The FDA appealed the decision and lost that as well. That’s when the ecig industry really started taking off. Bigger players got into the market and eventually RJR, Altria/Philip Morris, BAT and other big tobacco companies came out with ecig products. They quickly became the dominant sellers in c-stores. The tobacco companies were happy selling tobacco and menthol flavors only. That’s what they knew and that’s what they were good at.

A few years later eliquids and open systems started getting popular. These products were not very popular in c-stores. That is when vape stores started opening up. They were mainly concentrating on open system (eliquids, mods and great tasting flavors). For a short time c-stores tried to sell eliquids, but they didn’t have the know how or the time to educate customers. C-stores were good at selling closed systems and vape stores were good at open systems.

To the uninformed public we are all lumped in as one industry --- electronic cigarettes.

In reality there are 2 different industries that are somewhat related.

A) The ecig/closed system industry: In the USA as of Sep 2019 is a $6.4 billion industry. It is controlled mostly by big tobacco companies. Juul (Altria/PM), Blu (Imperial Tobacco), Vuse (British Tobacco, formerly RJR), Njoy (only independent supplier), Logic (Japan International). 75% of ecigs are sold in C-Stores, drug stores and food stores. As a comparison, regular cigarette sales in the USA are around $80 billion dollars and about 75% comes from c-stores.

While ecigs sales increased at a 40% year over year rate, regular cigarette sales dropped by 7% year over year. That is a large number that is troubling to big tobacco.

The closed system industry sells primarily tobacco and menthol/mint flavors. If flavors were banned it would not impact the industry very much. The companies selling closed systems are not going to join our fight to save flavors. They have no monetary incentive to do so. In addition all of these companies are going to apply for PMTA. They are not going to sue the FDA and risk getting PMTA approval unless it greatly impacts their business.

The vapor/open system industry: In the USA as of sep 2019 is a $2.6 billion industry. It is NOT controlled by a few large companies. There are a lot of hardware and ejuice suppliers. It is mostly sold at adult only vape stores. $1.7 Billion sold at vape stores, $350 million in c-stores and $550 million online. Lots of suppliers, distributors, small businesses are part of this industry. They mostly sell flavored eliquid as opposed to tobacco and menthol flavors.

Having been involved with both the ecig business and the vape business, I can say that they are completely different. The vape industry is getting punished for crimes committed by the ecig industry. Unfortunately we are being lumped in as one. We are the easier one to target. We need to do a much better job getting this message out.

I would also like to make a point regarding zero nicotine flavors being regulated by the FDA. The reason our industry is regulated by the FDA as a tobacco product is because the eliquid contains nicotine. This is the only reason the FDA has authority over these products. Because zero nicotine ejuice does not contain nicotine, it is no longer a tobacco product. While the FDA is going to try and enforce regulation of zero nicotine ejuice as a tobacco product by using the “intent to use” rationale, that argument is simply not valid. The FDA will also not be able to regulate zero nicotine ejuice as a drug/drug device combination either. Ejuice with no nicotine does not cause a change in the body and therefore will not be classified as a drug. This is only my educated opinion. I am not an attorney and am not making any legal claims.

I hope this was somewhat informative to people that have not been involved with ecigs and vapes as long as I have. Feel free to add, correct if you have information that I missed.

Feel free to share  

I haven't come across any studies or polls that determine how important flavors are/were to help vapers to quit smoking and remain off cigarettes.

This video is a fantastic testimony on how important flavors are in vaping. It's in an MP4 format, so the link looks funny, but its safe to click on. Mark_Slis-Michigan_Testimony-2019-09-12.mp4

He shares that 99% of his customers choose a fruit or desert flavor. An 87 year old grandmother chose "Fruity COPYRIGHTDMCA Cereal". Yes, older people like flavors and demand "kid flavors".

Why You Don't Need an E-Liquid that Tastes Like Cigarettes

So I'm asking everyone in this community to voice their opinion on how important flavors were to get you off of cigarettes when you began vaping, and how important are they to you today to keep you from returning back to smoking? Will you be able to use just "tobacco" flavors if the FDA bans flavors?




Sign the Petition
 

If people under a certain age are not allowed to purchase vape items, then what's the issue?

Just don't sell to any minors, and handle it like alcohol and tobacco. Go after any stores or vendors that break these rules and that sells to any minor and hit them with hefty fines or prosecution. Problem solved.

I reject the idiotic, false and unscientific argument that certain types of flavors are only suitable for kids. An adult is not allowed to like fruit flavors or desert flavors or any other type of flavor?

Do adults suddenly lose their sense of taste when they age, and they'll be content vaping poor tobacco imitation flavors and menthol for the rest of their lives?

I'm an adult, and my favorite flavors are custard type flavors. Just because I used to smoke, that doesn't mean that I should have to vape and like tobacco flavors. You don't ban all sorts of flavors and deny adults who are ex-smokers the opportunity to continue to be smoke free, just because they were lucky enough to have found and switched to vaping.

Sorry if I sound cynical, but so what if a handful of people have reportedly died because they were foolish enough to use blackmarket counterfeit items? Items that have zero to do with nic based vaping I should add.

How many millions of people die from tobacco related diseases?

Millions is a lot more than a handful last I checked, and the only thing that banning vaping and vaping related items will accomplish is to ensure that many more people will be added to the list of the dead as many will return to cigs and many current cig smokers will never make the switch to vaping, as the politicians seek to deny people the opportunity to stay off of cigs.

If they ever find a cure for cancer, I wouldn't be surprised if they ban that too, because 7 people happened to get some ill side effects from it.  

Im pretty much freaking out right now, I have been vaping the same juice for 7 years and I just received the 3 bottles that I ordered and I went through 8 coils thinking I had bad coils, well it wasn't the coils I went and smelled my juice and it smelled like a burnt coil with a mix of burnt plastic. I called and they said they didn't change manufactures so I'm assuming something went wrong in the lab. Anyhow I have 1 good bottle left and that's only 30ml, I vape USA #1 from Ecig pros and hopefully they fix it otherwise I'm going to have to wait until they get there next batch which will be a while, because they just got this batch. So I need to find a new juice to vape for now, I prefer max Vg and tobacco flavors but not with the Carmel or dark colors. I love a little nutty flavor, so please can you give me some names juice and where to get it. Also I don't do the salt nic. Thanks so much  

Brand Compounds | R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company

Cigarettes contain characterizing flavors certainly designed to appeal to children. Time to remove them.
For instance, Camel Filters soft pack
Tobacco Water Glycerol Brown Sugar Propylene Glycol High Fructose Corn Syrup Sucrose Cellulose Fiber Cocoa Licorice Diammonium Phosphate Ammonium Hydroxide Natural & Artificial Flavors