Flavor Ban?

Maybe it's just my lack of knowledge on the matter, due to the fact that I don't care enough to look it up, but based off of the emails that I've received from JUUL over the past few years, it just seems like they don't have an ounce of fight in them.

First it was the banning of all flavored pods, meaning 85% of their product line is just out the window. I was actually surprised they survived as a company after that happened, but I guess the buckets of money they were making before the ban helped out a lot. I know the law is the law, and it's not like they could just continue selling flavored pods, but I just didn't see any push back from them at all on the matter. From my point of view, they just folded and accepted the loss.

I know they've taken other hits after the pod ban, but again, specifics elude me. So, what sparked my interest in making this post was an email they sent out on April 20th of this year that I just now read...

"Final call - order before our online sales pause on April 22nd."

It basically reads something about federal regulatory changes...blah blah blah. So ALL online sales are just gone now. So does JUUL have people in the trenches actually fighting for the vaping community? I just haven't come across much proof, or rumblings in the media about them actually fighting for the many, many, many millions of dollars they have lost out on due to them taking huge L's left and right. I don't even use JUUL products anymore, so if you're wondering why I care so much about the matter, I'm wondering the same myself. It's just odd. I guess the parts of big tobacco who didn't own any shares in the vape industry finally got tired of losing money to it. Anyway. That's a rant.  

I would bet that the majority of the people that post here are ex-cigarette smokers ... You started vaping as a means to stop smoking cigarettes.

And I am willing to bet that very very few of you would have purchased flavored cigarettes (if they were available) when you were actively smoking cigarettes.

So, my question is .... Why are the majority of the ex-tobacco smokers here buying fruit, breakfast cereal, custard, bakery, candy, etc flavored juice to put in your atomizers?
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Me ... I DIY my juice which is a mix of various tobacco flavors to include some cigar overtones.

Me ... I just don't personally vape something that smells and tastes like apple pie, etc ... but that's just me.  

Flavor ban on flavored cartridges will do kids more harm than good. If a minor wants to vape, smoke cigs, drink, or other things that are against the law and harmful for them no one can stop them except the parents.

What's going to happen is kids will buy blackmarket refilled cartridges or refill their own. I've never used a Juul but it took me 1 minutes on youtube to find out how to refill a empty Juul cartridge.

Most cartridges can be refilled so banning them is really a joke

This ban will only push kids to worse things, that's sad.

The only reason the Feds/state/local government haVE been after vaping is "LOSS OF TAX REVENUE FROM SMOKERS QUITTING". If vaping was taxes as heavy as smoking the Gov. could care less about vape banning.  

New York Moves to Ban Flavored E-Cigarettes by Emergency Order

New York Set To Join Michigan In Banning Some E-Cigarettes

As soon as 2 weeks they said on the radio this morning.  

I just recently joined this community and have been reading the forums and I am scared! I live in Northern California, NOT San Francisco. I started vaping back in 2013 and quit cigarettes for good! I use Nautilus tanks and coils, Eleaf batteries (purchased on Ebay) and J-vapes out of Arizona. I have had no problems or warnings about getting these products. I use flavored tobaccos so I am not worried about a flavor ban....but what does this mean? I have just been vaping, oblivious to any problems or bans. Are all vaping products going to be banned? Will I not be able to purchase my items from Ebay or J-vapes anymore? Can someone please fill this out of touch person in with the latest news and what I should do? HELP!!!  

The FDA has a decision on e cigs.they are supposed to be banning all flavored pods.
They are not going to be banning top tank e cigs because kids don't like them.

I hope this is true.friday we should know more. Happy New year.  

Copied from another group.
With permission

I am the owner of Sapphyre Nicotine. I have been in the e-cig and vape business since 2009. This post is a little long but hopefully it is informative for some.

In 2009 the FDA started seizing shipments of electronic cigarettes under the claim that they were drug delivery devices and therefore need to pass FDA approval prior to being marketed and sold in the USA. The industry was just starting out and this was a big blow. Shipments of product were not allowed to enter the USA. Credit card companies were not allowing ecig companies to work with them. It was not looking good for ecigs. A company called Smoking Everywhere sued the FDA and made the argument that ecigs should be regulated as a tobacco product since they contained nicotine which is derived from Tobacco. Njoy joined the litigation and eventually took over when Smoking Everywhere went out of business. In 2010 Njoy won the litigation and ecigs ended up being regulated as tobacco products. This was the best outcome of two evils. The FDA appealed the decision and lost that as well. That’s when the ecig industry really started taking off. Bigger players got into the market and eventually RJR, Altria/Philip Morris, BAT and other big tobacco companies came out with ecig products. They quickly became the dominant sellers in c-stores. The tobacco companies were happy selling tobacco and menthol flavors only. That’s what they knew and that’s what they were good at.

A few years later eliquids and open systems started getting popular. These products were not very popular in c-stores. That is when vape stores started opening up. They were mainly concentrating on open system (eliquids, mods and great tasting flavors). For a short time c-stores tried to sell eliquids, but they didn’t have the know how or the time to educate customers. C-stores were good at selling closed systems and vape stores were good at open systems.

To the uninformed public we are all lumped in as one industry --- electronic cigarettes.

In reality there are 2 different industries that are somewhat related.

A) The ecig/closed system industry: In the USA as of Sep 2019 is a $6.4 billion industry. It is controlled mostly by big tobacco companies. Juul (Altria/PM), Blu (Imperial Tobacco), Vuse (British Tobacco, formerly RJR), Njoy (only independent supplier), Logic (Japan International). 75% of ecigs are sold in C-Stores, drug stores and food stores. As a comparison, regular cigarette sales in the USA are around $80 billion dollars and about 75% comes from c-stores.

While ecigs sales increased at a 40% year over year rate, regular cigarette sales dropped by 7% year over year. That is a large number that is troubling to big tobacco.

The closed system industry sells primarily tobacco and menthol/mint flavors. If flavors were banned it would not impact the industry very much. The companies selling closed systems are not going to join our fight to save flavors. They have no monetary incentive to do so. In addition all of these companies are going to apply for PMTA. They are not going to sue the FDA and risk getting PMTA approval unless it greatly impacts their business.

The vapor/open system industry: In the USA as of sep 2019 is a $2.6 billion industry. It is NOT controlled by a few large companies. There are a lot of hardware and ejuice suppliers. It is mostly sold at adult only vape stores. $1.7 Billion sold at vape stores, $350 million in c-stores and $550 million online. Lots of suppliers, distributors, small businesses are part of this industry. They mostly sell flavored eliquid as opposed to tobacco and menthol flavors.

Having been involved with both the ecig business and the vape business, I can say that they are completely different. The vape industry is getting punished for crimes committed by the ecig industry. Unfortunately we are being lumped in as one. We are the easier one to target. We need to do a much better job getting this message out.

I would also like to make a point regarding zero nicotine flavors being regulated by the FDA. The reason our industry is regulated by the FDA as a tobacco product is because the eliquid contains nicotine. This is the only reason the FDA has authority over these products. Because zero nicotine ejuice does not contain nicotine, it is no longer a tobacco product. While the FDA is going to try and enforce regulation of zero nicotine ejuice as a tobacco product by using the “intent to use” rationale, that argument is simply not valid. The FDA will also not be able to regulate zero nicotine ejuice as a drug/drug device combination either. Ejuice with no nicotine does not cause a change in the body and therefore will not be classified as a drug. This is only my educated opinion. I am not an attorney and am not making any legal claims.

I hope this was somewhat informative to people that have not been involved with ecigs and vapes as long as I have. Feel free to add, correct if you have information that I missed.

Feel free to share  

And so it begins......

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration said Wednesday it plans to ban the sale of non-tobacco-flavored electronic cigarettes amid a vaping crisis.

“The Trump Administration is making it clear that we intend to clear the market of flavored e-cigarettes to reverse the deeply concerning epidemic of youth e-cigarette use that is impacting children, families, schools and communities,” Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said in a statement. “We will not stand idly by as these products become an on-ramp to combustible cigarettes or nicotine addiction for a generation of youth.”

Michigan became the first state to prohibit sales of most flavored e-cigarettes last week in a bold move to curb the underage vaping epidemic. The ban, which will take effect in a few weeks, will cover both online and in-store sales of all e-cigarette flavors except tobacco.

Trump administration plans to ban sale of flavored electronic cigarettes  

I am supper pressed for time. I have just found out about a town meeting taking place at 5:00 tonight and the BOH is trying to ban flavored Ciggs amongst other things. So far they have lumped vaping in with ciggs in almost all town by-laws. I am going to go and try and see that vaping is separated from the tobacco regulations and that flavored E-juice is not banned along with it. What I would like specifically is some hard numbers on the effectiveness of vaping for tobacco cessation, numbers of ex smokers who are vaping Etc. I will check back in about a half hour and the meeting is in two and a half hours so give me some direct info (numbers,stats) that I can quickly digest and regurgitate.  

Trump Administration Weighs Ban on Flavored E-Cigarettes

Sitting in the Oval Office with Alex M. Azar II, the secretary of Health and Human Services, and Dr. Ned Sharpless, the acting Food and Drug Administration commissioner, President Trump acknowledged that there was a vaping problem, and said, “We’re going to have to do something about it.”

Mr. Azar said that the F.D.A. would outline a plan within the coming weeks for removing most flavored e-cigarettes that are not tobacco products from the market.

Pressure also began to mount as Michael R. Bloomberg, the former mayor of New York, decided to step in by announcing a $160 million push to ban flavored e-cigarettes. Long an opponent of traditional smoking, the former mayor said his organization, Bloomberg Philanthropies, would seek prohibitions of flavored e-cigarettes in at least 20 cities and states.




From left, Dr. Norman Sharpless, the acting F.D.A. commissioner, Melania Trump, President Trump and Alex M. Azar II, the health and human services secretary, discussing flavored e-cigarettes in the Oval Office on Wednesday.