If you’re from the United States or probably any Western country, you will know how quickly our culture can go from one extreme position to the next on just about any issue. Around 25-30 years ago, nicotine went somewhat suddenly from being a socially acceptable vice that could be done in nearly every public place by almost anyone to a highly stigmatized addiction that turned millions of smokers into second-class citizens. Unfortunately, since the most common delivery of nicotine had been through traditional cigarettes that have been lethal for so many people including both my grandfathers, the stigma behind nicotine has persisted into the era of vaping. And it doesn’t help that the practice “looks like” smoking.
However, in and of itself nicotine is not dangerous. It occurs naturally in fruits and vegetables, and does not cause lung cancer. It’s a drug, just like any substance or activity that releases dopamine in the brain. I’m personally much more concerned about the consumption of highly-caffeinated, high-sugar drinks, which are not age restricted, “flavor” restricted, and aren’t taxed to death. I’m also much more concerned about the proliferation of flavored beer and spirits in the last couple decades, which have minimal restriction on advertising and haven’t been scrutinized by the FDA to any degree comparable to JUUL or the e-cigarette industry in general. And while those substances can be very addictive, they are often encouraged in social settings, can be “enjoyed in moderation”, and aren’t considered an epidemic. Without getting too political, I’m entirely convinced that progressives would rather have 400,000 smokers continue to die each year because they didn’t switch to vaping than a new generation take up a significantly less harmful habit.
Hi,
I just tried to TC vaping - and it’s awesome!
it was harder to build the coil, took me couple of tries, but once I reached R of 1.3, everything started to work.
I used 26awg wire SS316L (that’s what they had ready in the store).
I have no dry hits - at all, it’s just perfect. It’s like having on the fly automatically adjusted curve!
I do have one small problem- 1 out of 10 mod firing - (almost) nothing happens.
is it a problem (not good chip/mod, wire, else?), or is it intended? (Coil overheated, wick is dry, else?). But that’s a small nuisance - I wait 10 seconds and wape again no problem.
what I still don’t understand - why I was always told at the stores “don’t TC vape - it’s the old way, now VW is the way to go” without any explanation.
So far I have a feeling that it was done exclusively in stores interest:
- because they know it’s harder to built, so they didn’t want to have a complaining customer “it does not work”, because the mods for tc probably cost more so it’s tougher sell, and they wanted to sell me more coils, wick, juice...
are there other reasons against TC? (Safety, medical reasons (idk - SS wire releases particles or something - seems unlikely (I know with Ti and Ni you should be causious)), else?
I continue to research this topic as well, online, YouTube, etc, but so far I found nothing against, except what I already mentioned (mainly it’s a bit harder to build the coils).
Would appreciate your opinions!
regards,
Vadim
ps. I use EHPRO Cold Steel 100 mod, Siren 2 MTL RTA.
Last week on a road trip with my motorcycle club, I had to go back to the “ash tray”. It’s to dangerous on the road, on “two wheels” with these constant sneezing attacks. I bummed cigarettes, then bought cigarettes. There’s thousands of road miles planned this summer, I’m leaving again next weekend. I love to ride, hate cigarettes, the taste, smell and cost but vaping will surely kill me!
There isn’t much of anything here or on the WWW about my issue with sneezing attacks. Not just a little sneeze but 4, 5 6 or more with an irritable urge, watery eyes and nose. When I put down my vape for an hour, it goes away, when I hit it, it starts back. Allergy medicine doesn’t stop it and makes me drowsy. This just started about 3 weeks ago, it’s like I’m suddenly allergic to...?
I’ve been vaping since 2013 when my lovely 77 yr old Aunt shared her vape. I had tried everything on the market including prescription drugs and hypnosis to put down my 20 year pack a day stink habit. For 5+ years I’ve been using an RTA and DIY juice. I’ve been using the same DIY products from Nicotine River (fresh frozen) since Dec 2019 as well as same flavors, TFA, LorAnn, Capella and same recipes. using a VG 70/30 @ 8+ Nic.
For 4+ years with zero issues I used the Lemo 2. Yes an oldie, but ya no how it is when you find a good combination. Until last year, I could get all the rebuildable supplies at Fastech. Since 2020 I’ve been buying and using different RTA’s, RDA’s Squonks, mesh coils, etc. searching for a “new love”.
My tanks are Profile Unity, Zeus Dual RTA, Creed RTA, Drop, Brunhilde and Dead Rabbit. JIC it was the new packaged supplied wicks & coils, I went back to my old wicking material which didn’t help. Tried 100% VG with VG Nic Salts, no change. I’m at a dead end, totally out of ideas, I give up, still hate cigarettes but...
Any thoughts would be much appreciated!
I’m curious as to why you shouldn’t do DL when using nic salts. I’ve got an Aegis Hero with a 0.6 coil at 15 watts. Even with the airflow closed off, it’s still to loose for a MTL. I keep reading and hearing I shouldn’t use nic salts for DL. The worst thing I’ve experienced so far is a mild headache. The nic salt is a 30mg.
Thanks in advance. ECF is my only true support group and I’m having a really hard time not smoking the stinkiest. Been back to vaping for about a month, and keep telling myself it’s all about baby steps. Not how many I smoke but how many I don’t smoke. I’ve got to quit for health reasons.
I was pretty upset with the wired article and wrote a lengthy response for my blog. Thought I'd share.
[h=2]Wired: http://www. wired. com/2015/04/war-vapings-health-risks-getting-dirty/"
The War Over Vaping’s Health Risks Is Getting Dirty“ - My Response to this Misleading Article[/h]I was really bothered by how misleading this article was, so I’m gonna break it down.
Before I begin, a clarification: There are many issues regarding ecig or “vaporizer” usage, and on many of them, there’s no disagreement between anti-vapers and pro-vapers. For instance, both groups do not want children getting ecigs. However, many people - like in this wired article - muddle a bunch of the issues together, so I’ll be teasing them apart.
For nicotine enthusiasts, 2015 will be remembered as part of a golden era. Less than 10 years after they were introduced in the United States, e-cigarettes have gone relatively unregulated by health agencies, with companies and users making their own rules in a nicotine-laced Wild West. E-cigarette companies have been advertising their products to adults and children alike, claiming to help smokers quit while simultaneously promoting lollipop-flavored liquids…
Reminiscent of glamorous smoking ads of the last century, many of the ads feature celebrity endorsements; in a Blu ad, Jenny McCarthy flirts with the camera while rejoicing that she can now smoke without scaring guys away with her smell. And many of them seem shockingly child-centric…
1. Advertising to adults: This is a legitimate question. Personally, I’m leaning toward lighter regulations for ecig ads bc numerous studies have shown they are much safer than cigarettes (American Heart Association, x, x, x, x, x ) and can act as an effecting smoking cessation aid, though they are not yet approved for that purpose (American Heart Association, x, x ). But again, a legitimate question.
2. Advertising to kids: No-one wants that. Furthermore, no-one has done that! When critics like the author of the wired article allege that is happening, they almost always are referring to the non-tobacco flavors offered. However, the reason sweet, fruity, and candy flavors are offered is because they are extremely popular amongst adult vapers (x, x). Saying they’re marketed to children is like saying sweet alcoholic drinks are marketed for children because all adults would obviously prefer bourbon. It’s ludicrous. Adults like sweet flavors too.
2b. On a related note: Some have been concerned that ecigs may increase teen use of cigarettes, but the evidence thus far says otherwise. (x, x).
…Last week, the California Department of Public Health launched a anti-vaping campaign called Still Blowing Smoke. And in January, the San Francisco Department of Health launched #CurbIt, pointing out the dangers of e-cigs and their brazen plays to hook kids while warning residents that vaping is only allowed in the same places as smoking.
There’s plenty of evidence behind the campaigns’ claims—studies that link e-cigs to asthma, lung inflammation, MRSA infection risk and exposure to harmful chemicals. But with scant data on the long-term health effects of e-cigarettes and their usefulness as a quitting tool, the ads use a number of classic psychological strategies to help beat back the ire of pro-vapers…
3. The Still Blowing Smoke ads were themselves blowing smoke. I’d like to discuss three of their main tv ads.
3a. One suggested that ecigs are marketed for kids bc of the flavors, as discussed above.
3b. Another suggested (or rather, alleges) that vaping is a “Big Tobacco” conspiracy! While it’s true that Big Tobacco has bought in to some ecig production, the vast majority of vape businesses are small businesses, such as the brick-and-mortar “vape shops” that are emerging. Perhaps more importantly, this is guilt by association. If Big Tobacco owned Chantix, a popular smoking cessation aid, would that automatically mean it’s evil? And unlike the vast, vast majority of small vape businesses, Big Tobacco has an incentive to make cigs fail: Users are more likely to continue smoking! (Not to mention the very impressive revenue that states gain from tobacco sales, which vaping threatens. x, x)
3c. Finally, they aired a commercial with a small toddler reaching for a vape, presenting that as a risk. Which it is, of course - just like with any other chemical left around the house, be it alcohol, cleaning supplies, or whatever! That isn’t a vaping issue; it’s a parenting issue.
More info on those ads here.
4. The #CurbIt campaign (x) similarly suggests that vapes are part of a Big Tobacco conspiracy and marketed to children (sigh).
4a.What bothered me most was the phrasing they used in one particular ad: “We know e-cigarettes are harmful, just like cigarettes.” While one could argue that it merely meant, “ecigs are also harmful”, it seems to me to be implying that they are just as harmful, which is patently false.
4b. And as others have pointed out: One is likely inhaling more toxic fumes from the curb than from vaping!
4c. Of course, that does leave the question of second-hand-vape exposure, which #CurbIt also alerts the public to. However, the evidence for second-hand vpe exposure is still very thin, with many experts thinking it has a minimal effect if any. (x, x ).
5. To be sure, no-one thinks that vaporizers are completely harmless. Almost nothing is! The question is relative harm (as well as harm-reduction). Are ecigs bad for asthmatics - well, how bad? Certainly they’re better than cigarettes. Might ecigs cause some lung inflammation? Very possibly, but are we going to outlaw every activity or product poses any amount of tissue inflammation?! Clearly that’s an absurd approach. We need to look at overall health, relative health, and common standards in other areas. (For instance, caffeine is addictive, but the public has no qualms with allowing people to use it.)
6. I’ll add that in addition to the lack of studies demonstrating long-term adverse affects, the research on short-term affects are mixed, with many indicating that it is very safe in general, and particularly in contrast to cigarettes.
One CDC ad relies on anecdotal evidence to make its point. It features a story from an e-cigarette user, a 35-year-old wife and mother named Kristy from Tennessee who says she started smoking e-cigarettes hoping to quit combustible cigarettes. Instead, she began to smoke both, until her lung collapsed. The American Vaping Association reportedly called the ad “patently dishonest,” saying that it implies vaping led to lung disease, when in reality Kristy had gone back to smoking cigarettes alone in the months before her lung collapsed. California’s anti-vaping campaign lists toxins that humans once thought were safe—arsenic-laced powdered wigs, radium therapy, and of course cigarettes—and compares them to e-cigs, using a deceptive associative tactic that we’ve called out before.
7. This is one of the few points where the piece describes one obvious instance of misleading advertising - and the vaping community’s obvious and necessary response to such deception. (And for what it’s worth, there are thousands and thousands of people who credit ecigs with saving their lives #VapingSavedMyLife). But even here, the article’s authors don’t really take the anti-vaping activists to task for it. In fact, they almost seem to endorse that very same tactic:
The problem is, as in the early days of campaigns against cigarettes, there isn’t definitive evidence that e-cigarettes cause long-term harm—a point that pro-vapers will be quick to remind you of. But there also isn’t definitive evidence that they’re safe. And there are many good reasons to assume they’ll be found in time to increase cancer and heart and lung disease.
The Wired article doesn’t explain what those reasons are… just that it’s a good assumption! (I guess they also think they’re like arsenic-laced powdered wigs.)
What firm science there is to rest on is fairly obvious: E-cigarettes are almost certainly less toxic and carcinogenic than regular cigarettes. But that doesn’t mean that they’re not a health hazard. “We already know you’re breathing in a lot of toxic chemicals, which is bad,” says Glantz. “You’re breathing in a lot of toxic particles, which is bad. You’re taking in nicotine, which is bad. A cigarette is by far and away the most dangerous consumer product ever invented. So to say it’s not as bad as a cigarette is not saying very much.”
8. This was, to me, perhaps the most balanced paragraph in the article, but even here I’d challenge some aspects. In essence, of course breathing anything other than air isn’t going to be good for you, but it’s a matter of degree for the general public, and relative health for smokers. This might be a good time to mention that the studies thus far indicate that 99% of vapers are smokers or ex-smokers (x, x ). That is, they switched from “the most dangerous consumer product ever invented” to something less harmful, perhaps much, much less harmful, for at least part of the time.
In the absence of incontrovertible evidence, then, public health agencies have to continue to play a little dirty themselves to get citizens to pay attention. In a couple of years, researchers will begin to do association studies to pull out long-term health effects. Until that science rolls in, the, prepare to sit back and enjoy the show. These two camps will be hashing it out for a while.
9. This another area where I disagree: If there is a lack of evidence, don’t treat it like a deadly substance. If the evidence suggests that it’s getting many people off of a horribly injurious habit, then definitely don’t treat it like a deadly substance.
All in all, very disappointed in the article. It basically boasted propaganda for a cause that may further harm millions. It presents very little actual information, and seems to ignore the information which extols the virtues of vaping over smoking. To be sure, we need more studies, as many of the study’s done so far have been faulty (like the popularized “formaldehyde” study - x) or contain a conflict of interest. Still, much of the evidence thus far is positive, and legislating as though it were negative is unfair to vapers and the millions suffering from tobacco cigarette addiction.
All Wired really seemed to care about discussing is the social media attention the debate is getting - and probably just trying to cash in on that by stirring the pot.
P.s. Of Interest: List of studies related to ecigs and vaping. (x)
Got this from the world wide web and wanted to share it here.
Apologies if it's already been shared. It's a handy list for reference as well as informative.
E-CIGARETTE POLICY BRIEF: Seven Things Policy Makers Need to Know
All references are hyperlinked to official WHO and government reports, and peer-reviewed studies
The death toll from smoking is enormous
8 million people die every year from smoking-related diseases (WHO), including 480,000 in the USA (CDC)
1.1 billion people smoke worldwide (WHO), including 34 million in the USA (CDC)
In the USA, smoking is now concentrated among low-income and LGBTQ people, people living with mental
illnesses, and indigenous peoples (American Lung Association)
→ Tobacco smoking is, by far, the world’s leading cause of preventable cancer, heart and lung disease
Harm reduction can reduce that death toll
There is growing independent consensus that e-cigarettes are safer than smoking (35+ official public statements)
There is strong evidence that smokers who switch to e-cigarettes have lower risk of cancer, heart & lung disease
When not in tobacco smoke, nicotine itself does not cause cancer, heart or lung disease (CDC and IARC/WHO)
→ Other examples of harm reduction include seat belts, bicycle helmets, parachutes, methadone and condoms
Safer nicotine alternatives help smokers quit
Big pharma nicotine patches & gum (NRTs) cause neither addiction nor cancer, heart or lung disease (FDA; CDC)
NRTs increase quit success from 5% (cold turkey) to 9% (on average, smokers try and fail 30 times before quitting)
E-cigarettes are two times more effective than NRTs (Cochrane review of 50 peer-reviewed studies worldwide)
Many adult vapers “quit by accident” with e-cigarettes (online survey); NRTs only benefit those who want to quit
92% of US all vapers are ADULTS; 4.3 million US adults have quit smoking completely with nicotine vapes (CDC)
The adult cessation total may be 5.4 million because 26% of those who quit with e-cigarettes later quit vaping
2.1 million UK smokers (UK government) and 7.5 million EU smokers (Eurobarometer) have quit with e-cigarettes
‘Flavors’ are up to 2.3 times more effective for smoking cessation than tobacco flavor (Yale study) (UK study)
80% of US adult vapers prefer fruit, dessert or candy flavors that don’t remind them of smoking (FDA submission)
→ Forcing ex-smokers to vape tobacco flavor is like forcing recovering alcoholics to drink rum-flavored club soda
Teen vaping is undesirable, but not a crisis
In the UK, which promotes nicotine vaping for adult smokers, teen “current use” by never-smokers is just 1%
US high school “current use” of vaping products dropped 29% between 2019 and March 2020 (CDC/NYTS)
By March 2020, only 1 in 20 US high school students vaped daily (4.4%, but 53% of that may be THC not nicotine)
US youth & young adult vaping dropped another 32% during the pandemic (JAMA survey up to November 2020)
If both surveys are combined, just 1 in 10 US high school-age teens are now “current users” (13%)
→ If this assumption is correct, then US teen past 30-day ever-use is now lower than it was in 2015 (6 years ago)
Proposed policy “cures” are worse than the “disease”
Proposed policies to reduce teen vaping include higher taxes, ‘flavor’ bans, online sales bans and shipping bans
E-cigarette taxes have caused cigarette sales to increase in 8 US states (National Bureau of Economic Research)
E-cigarette taxes “increase prenatal smoking and lower smoking cessation during pregnancy” in female smokers
Ecig flavor bans increased cigarette sales in San Francisco; Washington; Rhode Island; New York; and Nova Scotia
Online sales and mail shipment bans reduce adult access, so are also very likely to strengthen cigarette sales
→ Higher taxes, ‘flavor’ bans, and online/mail bans protect big tobacco’s main cash cow: deadly cigarettes
Unintended consequences and logical inconsistencies
Probable outcome of ‘flavor’ bans: Teen vapers will switch to THC vaping or to cigarette smoking; many adult
vapers will relapse to smoking; fewer smokers will quit; an illicit market (with no age-checks) will arise
The same organizations that claim teen vaping is a gateway to tobacco smoking, also claim tobacco-flavored
e-cigarettes repel teens (i.e., banning ‘flavored’ nicotine vapes will reduce teen vaping)
→ Definitions differ: adult current use = daily or regular use; teen current use = past 30-day ever-use
Full context of adult products that teens use, but should not use
US teens are more likely to smoke pot or use illegal drugs than to be “current users” of e-cigarettes (NIDA MTF)
US teens are 2X more likely to binge drink than vape “frequently”; 3X more likely to binge drink than vape daily
US teen binge drinking causes 3,500 deaths and 119,000 ER visits/year (CDC); US policy response? Age-checks
US teen “current smoking” rates dropped 3X faster than historical trends after 2012 (NIDA MTF)
→ Teens should not vape, smoke, drink or use cannabis (and adults should try to avoid irrational moral panics)
It’s been a day and half with out cigarettes, and I have quit multiple times before using sub ohm setups and a salt nic device. I have multiple of both. This time though... all I can think about is having one cigarette... how do I get this urge to go away? To not want to have one.. I’ve been vaping my a** off but i’m starting to smell them and they smell like s*** I’ll say that. Everyone around me smokes so it’s just kind of hard to this time I guess... my whole family smokes, my parents, my friends , I have a couple that vape but I don’t see them that much. Idk, just wanted to see what made it easy for everyone to finally quit. Thanks!
Okay, so I Vape in very “precise” ways but I cannot figure out how to calculate (do the proper math) on how much I nicotine I am consuming. Can someone help? I have been vaping the exact same way daily for a long time, but still don’t know how much nicotine I get (just an estimate) per session because I suck at math...
Details:
1.) I vape 3mg (3mg of nicotine, per ml of juice) of nicotine using a “Smok Nfix” that holds a 3ml pod of nicotine juice. So that’s 9mg of nicotine, per pod.
2.) I set the wattage to exactly 22W on the vape, always, and it is a MTL pod device.
3.) I take EXACTLY 5 puffs over a period of 5-10 mins. Every puff is EXACTLY 5 seconds. Sometimes only 4 seconds, but just say 5 to make it easier. I use my watch or phone’s timer to make certain the timing is exact. I inhale the same way every time. So 5 puffs X 5 seconds, per puff, equals 25 seconds total for each vape session. After those 5 puffs, I don’t vape again (at all) for 1-3 hours, just depending.
....But how do I figure out how much nicotine I am getting in those 5 puffs? I know that in my Nfix pod there is 9mg of nicotine, in each pod.
I also believe 1 full pod (3ML) gives approximately 325 seconds worth of puffs, with each puff being only 1 SECOND. I only tested this one time so I am not certain, but it’s an estimate.
Can anyone help me do the right math here?
I also still smoke ultra light Marlboro cigarettes (from what I read on multiple sources you only absorb about 0.5mg to 0.7mg of nicotine per cig on the ultra lights) but only 1-3 cigarettes per day.
But I am wondering if my 5 puffs on the vape (5 puffs @ 5 second each) is even remotely close to being equal to an ultra light cigarette that has about 0.5mg nicotine per cig?
Thanks, I suck at math so if anyone can help lol
I’m a long time vaper. I have been vaping 83/27 PG/VG juice with 12-16 mg nic. I use an avacado tank with dual Clapton coils at .3 ohms and around 50-60 watts. With this config I can get my most desirable lung hit but only with certain juices and I tend to chain vape. Whenever the shop is out of my regular juice I’m always Leary picking something new because a lot of times even at the same nic level I don’t get the satisfying lung hit I crave and end up with a sore throat from hitting it so often. Soo... I moved to Hawaii and my system is all screwed up. The juices here are all 50/50 so super watery, the juice is also double the price, I burn through it twice as fast, the lung hit is barely there, and it pops and crackles really loud which drives my wife nuts and has cuased many arguments about my “stupid crack pipe”. So in an effort to make my wife happier, spend less money, and maybe vape less I decided to venture into the salts realm.
I started with a geek bar to test the waters and lung hit was phenomenal! But at $20 a pop and only lasting a day that just wasn’t going to work. So after much research I just picked up a SMOK NORD 2 and some 48mg juice. I set it for 50 watts and took my first drag. Good god almighty! One hit and I caught a buzz. I have NEVER caught a buzz from a vape before. After some messing around I dialed it down to 25 watts and so far seems like the sweet spot and I don’t have the urge to chain vape... so success? I don’t know yet? It’s for sure a lot quieter and 1/4 the size of my tank MOD. Does going from chain vaping 16mg to 48 salt nic seem excessive or about right? I may try the 24mg juice when this one is out but any other suggestions? I’m a little worried I’m going to give myself nic poisoning after that first drag lol
Posting a picture of my set up for today got me thinking as it featured my oldest original well used, worn, scratched and faded iStick 30w which has served me so well and has far outlived its projected lifespan.
A lot changed for me back in October 2015 - my grown up daughter and her husband had switched to vaping as they couldn’t smoke even in the grounds at work and had taken to vaping.
They liked it and gave me an e-pipe, tobacco flavoured vape liquids, a couple of 18350 batteries for it and a Nitecore Charger.
I thanked them, said I’d give it a try - with my fingers crossed and the thought in my mind, “Aye that’ll be right, I’ll stick it in the drawer and phone you in a few weeks saying it broke and I’m really sad about it.”
A week later my conscience got the better of me and I tried it on a Friday morning ( the 17th of October ), was amazed that I got through a day on it without a craving, thought I’d try it over the weekend, did, and have never smoked in the four years plus since. Amazing since I had smoked for more than 50 years previous to that.
I took the e-pipe to Spain with me for the Winter and while there bought a couple of the old style Ego batteries and plastic tanks with their trailing glass fiber wicks “just in case.”
The 18350s need constant charging, the juice soon destroyed the threads of the pipe’s plastic tank and the back up devices gurgled badly and so I went down to Fuengirola where there was a big vape shop and asked could they recommend a better tank - they suggested a Nautilus Mini and when I asked about a battery for it ( I didn’t know they were actually called “Mods” then) they gave me an iStick 30w … and the rest is history.
I joined this Forum about five weeks after I switched to vaping. In those days MTL was THE thing, the setup I’d bought was “flavour of the month” along with the GS Air Tank and one by Kanger. I learned a lot on ECF in a very short time, and I’ll always be grateful for that.
I tend to be a bit of a stick in the mud when I find something I like and my motto tends to be “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it!” I’ve experimented with mechs, squonkers, drippers, and coil building over the years but always come back to my old faithful Nautis and iSticks - simply because for me they work and they work well.
Having found kits that worked, I dropped out of the Forum for a few years until in Spain over the Winter gone I thought my Nautis were failing me or giving up the ghost ( in actual fact as I discovered when I got back to the UK I had had a batch of really really bad coils ) and started reading ECF again and found that the new best thing for MTL was the Zenith, so I gave it a whirl.
I was slow to take to the Zenith I have to admit - while it made my batteries last longer for some reason and was super easy to refill on the go, at first it vaped too dry for me, seemed too airy and the drip tip didn’t initially suit me at all but I persevered with it ( them) and now keep a set of seven for use outdoors or for when travelling or for when I simply feel like a change.
Here’s the Old Soldier!
Anyone else still using old kit?