Njoy Stops Online Ordering

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With permission

I am the owner of Sapphyre Nicotine. I have been in the e-cig and vape business since 2009. This post is a little long but hopefully it is informative for some.

In 2009 the FDA started seizing shipments of electronic cigarettes under the claim that they were drug delivery devices and therefore need to pass FDA approval prior to being marketed and sold in the USA. The industry was just starting out and this was a big blow. Shipments of product were not allowed to enter the USA. Credit card companies were not allowing ecig companies to work with them. It was not looking good for ecigs. A company called Smoking Everywhere sued the FDA and made the argument that ecigs should be regulated as a tobacco product since they contained nicotine which is derived from Tobacco. Njoy joined the litigation and eventually took over when Smoking Everywhere went out of business. In 2010 Njoy won the litigation and ecigs ended up being regulated as tobacco products. This was the best outcome of two evils. The FDA appealed the decision and lost that as well. That’s when the ecig industry really started taking off. Bigger players got into the market and eventually RJR, Altria/Philip Morris, BAT and other big tobacco companies came out with ecig products. They quickly became the dominant sellers in c-stores. The tobacco companies were happy selling tobacco and menthol flavors only. That’s what they knew and that’s what they were good at.

A few years later eliquids and open systems started getting popular. These products were not very popular in c-stores. That is when vape stores started opening up. They were mainly concentrating on open system (eliquids, mods and great tasting flavors). For a short time c-stores tried to sell eliquids, but they didn’t have the know how or the time to educate customers. C-stores were good at selling closed systems and vape stores were good at open systems.

To the uninformed public we are all lumped in as one industry --- electronic cigarettes.

In reality there are 2 different industries that are somewhat related.

A) The ecig/closed system industry: In the USA as of Sep 2019 is a $6.4 billion industry. It is controlled mostly by big tobacco companies. Juul (Altria/PM), Blu (Imperial Tobacco), Vuse (British Tobacco, formerly RJR), Njoy (only independent supplier), Logic (Japan International). 75% of ecigs are sold in C-Stores, drug stores and food stores. As a comparison, regular cigarette sales in the USA are around $80 billion dollars and about 75% comes from c-stores.

While ecigs sales increased at a 40% year over year rate, regular cigarette sales dropped by 7% year over year. That is a large number that is troubling to big tobacco.

The closed system industry sells primarily tobacco and menthol/mint flavors. If flavors were banned it would not impact the industry very much. The companies selling closed systems are not going to join our fight to save flavors. They have no monetary incentive to do so. In addition all of these companies are going to apply for PMTA. They are not going to sue the FDA and risk getting PMTA approval unless it greatly impacts their business.

The vapor/open system industry: In the USA as of sep 2019 is a $2.6 billion industry. It is NOT controlled by a few large companies. There are a lot of hardware and ejuice suppliers. It is mostly sold at adult only vape stores. $1.7 Billion sold at vape stores, $350 million in c-stores and $550 million online. Lots of suppliers, distributors, small businesses are part of this industry. They mostly sell flavored eliquid as opposed to tobacco and menthol flavors.

Having been involved with both the ecig business and the vape business, I can say that they are completely different. The vape industry is getting punished for crimes committed by the ecig industry. Unfortunately we are being lumped in as one. We are the easier one to target. We need to do a much better job getting this message out.

I would also like to make a point regarding zero nicotine flavors being regulated by the FDA. The reason our industry is regulated by the FDA as a tobacco product is because the eliquid contains nicotine. This is the only reason the FDA has authority over these products. Because zero nicotine ejuice does not contain nicotine, it is no longer a tobacco product. While the FDA is going to try and enforce regulation of zero nicotine ejuice as a tobacco product by using the “intent to use” rationale, that argument is simply not valid. The FDA will also not be able to regulate zero nicotine ejuice as a drug/drug device combination either. Ejuice with no nicotine does not cause a change in the body and therefore will not be classified as a drug. This is only my educated opinion. I am not an attorney and am not making any legal claims.

I hope this was somewhat informative to people that have not been involved with ecigs and vapes as long as I have. Feel free to add, correct if you have information that I missed.

Feel free to share  

I’ve had a couple njoy batteries that I’ve replaced when the times come. I just got a brand new one yesterday and it fell in water. I’ve put it in rice and it hits okay but once I hit it the light stays on afterwards for a long time. And the light is faint and flashing when it’s on the charger. Is there anything I can do to fix it?  

I live on the East Coast USA.

Walking down the street, it's hard to notice that vaping is taking off in any meaningful way, because most people that I see still smoke analogs, that includes both young people and older people too. I'm not going to judge them, because it wasn't that long ago that I was still puffing on an analog, and I had failed to see the awesomeness of vaping.

Besides myself, I don't really see too many people vaping outside on sidewalks. I vape outside in the same way that I'd smoke analogs before, so that means practically all of the time, and especially when I'm walking outside. I'm using a thin e-cig, so I don't usually get too many strange looks. I can imagine what kind of looks somebody walking down the sidewalk must get if they're using one of those big, fancy and shiny looking mods to vape with.

Just 6 months ago, there were no vape shops at all in the immediate local area where I live, and now there are 4 that have opened up, all within a very short walking distance of me (10 minutes or less). I'm pretty sure that a lot of non vapers who live here are walking past those stores every day and wondering, what the hell kind of store is that and why are so many of them opening up in this neighborhood?

One of those four stores will probably fail though, because their sign says tobacco/vape store, while the other 3 are dedicated to vaping only. A store can't be both in my opinion. That's a bit of a contradiction and a stupid combination to put it bluntly.

I've been to a couple of the vape stores so far, and in the short time that I was in those stores there were always new customers there who were smokers who were looking to start vaping.

So while I might not notice how popular vaping is by walking on the sidewalks, I think that it's safe to say that vaping is taking off big time with so many small vape shops opening up, and the amount of people vaping will only increase, because there's still a lot of smelly smokers out there who haven't yet given up on their cancer sticks.

And if this is happening where I live, then I bet that similar things are happening all across the country. Every small town should have at least one dedicated vape shop! I like the quick and easy access to all sorts of liquids and brands.

Just today, I was reading online about some premium liquids, and instead of ordering it online (I didn't want to wait), I had acquired a bottle of that exact liquid five minutes later, after sampling it quickly, and I was already at home and vaping it 10 minutes later.  

I'm thinking of ordering from Fasttech, I know alot of you have said you do and with 100 premade claptons for just a couple buck I see why. My question to you all is how long do you generally wait to recieve orders? 2-3 weeks or so?  

I am new here and I am surely not the type to stir the pot, but something is bothering me. I see all these members with banners at the bottom explaining how much money they have saved thus far by not smoking, and vaping instead? I just have to shake my head and wonder what planet they come from.

Ten years ago I purchased a top of the line cigarette injector for $25. That same injector costs $35 right now, and it has been highly improved. I can buy top quality bulk tobacco wholesale on the internet, top quality filtered cigarette tubes, and produce world class cigarettes for just about $1.25 per pack. A few years ago it was less than a $1.00 per pack. These are first class top quality cigarettes, better than anything you can buy in any store. You can make them in any style or strength you like, regular or menthol.

A fumble fingered klutz with no practice can pump out one cigarette every 30 seconds, I can do 5 or 6 per minute, and I am kind of a klutz myself! I know poor people and rich people who make cigarettes this same way. Who still buys cigarettes in stores for $5 to $10 per pack? Seriously, who does that? Certainly not anyone with an IQ above 75.

Don't tell me it would have been to difficult for you to do, because messing with Mods, and e-juice, and batteries is far more time consuming and difficult than pumping out cigarettes on a tube injector. So my former habit cost me $1.25 per day for a pack. I can already tell that I will be burning far more than $1.25 in e-juice daily.

All I am saying is that vaping is more expensive than smoking for anyone with common sense, so stop bragging about how much money you saved, that is disingenuous. Brag about why you are doing it for your health.  

Tried ordering from vapebox today and during checkout it said my location was blocked from ordering. I contacted support and he said state law prohibited online sales in Massachusetts. I've not heard of any new laws banning online sales here and had no issues ordering from other sites yesterday. Anyone from Ma have any similar issues?  

I read reviews all the time on atties and tanks where the reviewer starts going on about the intense/superb/awesome flavour.

This was brought home to me by a couple of experiences i had with my home-made ADV. I love it in a Kafun but find it unvapeable in an Orchid.
Njoy AC Hedons Bite - Overwhelming melon flavour in a Kayfun - Predominantly apple flavour in a Subtank mini.

One device may well bring out certain aspects of a flavour that are more appealing and yet make other flavours taste mediocre.
To me it is over simplistic to announce that a particular device is best for flavour. In fact i believe anyone who says that should be forced to never leave a review again. Ever.
I know that wattage plays a part but to me the airflow is the biggest factor in flavour and not coil / chamber size / wick / colour of device.......

Or am i wrong ?  

I was wondering what people think of such stores. I know most of us are against the very thought of tobacco now that we are vapers and I have seen people slam such stores in a couple groups I belong to.

I personally don't mind them because the one I go to is actively trying to turn their tobacco customers into vaping customers. But I know other people who see them as nothing more then cancer merchants since they also profit from tobacco.

One thing I found really interesting is how certain vendors will not do business with them. For instance, on the B&M's Facebook page, they said they were getting Five Pawns juice. I went to the store to buy some and was told that it will only be in their couple vape only shops because Five Pawns refuses to sell their liquid where tobacco is sold. This is a bit disappointing to me because if it wasn't for the tobacco store getting me to switch, I might not be vaping.

Sent from my HTC One M8 Harman/Kardon edition  

I am just curious... Who here is not stocking up on a lifetime supply of nic and hardware before the May 2020 deadline? And why not? Do you plan to quit vaping? Do you plan on going back to cigarettes? Do you plan on just vaping whatever three or four hunks of junk (i.e. nJoy or Blu type) tobacco flavored garbage the FDA approves?

And if May 2020 wasn't enough of a reason, are you not worried about other things like the bill on the floor to add $2,780 in taxes per 1 liter of 100mg nic?  

I'm trying to look for a couple cheap drip tips for my subtanks. It's tough ordering these online without being able to see them and fit them on your tank. Most I see the part that connects into the tank doesn't look as long as the one for the subtank, so I'm afraid it will be a little loose and wobble. I'm looking for something around the same size maybe a little bigger.