I assume the largest would have the best chance. Seems they want to consolidate the industry so as not to have to regulate 10,000 companies, a bummer since innovation will likely be quenched 100 fold.
Will flavored ejuice really go the way of the dodo bird?
Copied from another group.
With permission
I am the owner of Sapphyre Nicotine. I have been in the e-cig and vape business since 2009. This post is a little long but hopefully it is informative for some.
In 2009 the FDA started seizing shipments of electronic cigarettes under the claim that they were drug delivery devices and therefore need to pass FDA approval prior to being marketed and sold in the USA. The industry was just starting out and this was a big blow. Shipments of product were not allowed to enter the USA. Credit card companies were not allowing ecig companies to work with them. It was not looking good for ecigs. A company called Smoking Everywhere sued the FDA and made the argument that ecigs should be regulated as a tobacco product since they contained nicotine which is derived from Tobacco. Njoy joined the litigation and eventually took over when Smoking Everywhere went out of business. In 2010 Njoy won the litigation and ecigs ended up being regulated as tobacco products. This was the best outcome of two evils. The FDA appealed the decision and lost that as well. That’s when the ecig industry really started taking off. Bigger players got into the market and eventually RJR, Altria/Philip Morris, BAT and other big tobacco companies came out with ecig products. They quickly became the dominant sellers in c-stores. The tobacco companies were happy selling tobacco and menthol flavors only. That’s what they knew and that’s what they were good at.
A few years later eliquids and open systems started getting popular. These products were not very popular in c-stores. That is when vape stores started opening up. They were mainly concentrating on open system (eliquids, mods and great tasting flavors). For a short time c-stores tried to sell eliquids, but they didn’t have the know how or the time to educate customers. C-stores were good at selling closed systems and vape stores were good at open systems.
To the uninformed public we are all lumped in as one industry --- electronic cigarettes.
In reality there are 2 different industries that are somewhat related.
A) The ecig/closed system industry: In the USA as of Sep 2019 is a $6.4 billion industry. It is controlled mostly by big tobacco companies. Juul (Altria/PM), Blu (Imperial Tobacco), Vuse (British Tobacco, formerly RJR), Njoy (only independent supplier), Logic (Japan International). 75% of ecigs are sold in C-Stores, drug stores and food stores. As a comparison, regular cigarette sales in the USA are around $80 billion dollars and about 75% comes from c-stores.
While ecigs sales increased at a 40% year over year rate, regular cigarette sales dropped by 7% year over year. That is a large number that is troubling to big tobacco.
The closed system industry sells primarily tobacco and menthol/mint flavors. If flavors were banned it would not impact the industry very much. The companies selling closed systems are not going to join our fight to save flavors. They have no monetary incentive to do so. In addition all of these companies are going to apply for PMTA. They are not going to sue the FDA and risk getting PMTA approval unless it greatly impacts their business.
The vapor/open system industry: In the USA as of sep 2019 is a $2.6 billion industry. It is NOT controlled by a few large companies. There are a lot of hardware and ejuice suppliers. It is mostly sold at adult only vape stores. $1.7 Billion sold at vape stores, $350 million in c-stores and $550 million online. Lots of suppliers, distributors, small businesses are part of this industry. They mostly sell flavored eliquid as opposed to tobacco and menthol flavors.
Having been involved with both the ecig business and the vape business, I can say that they are completely different. The vape industry is getting punished for crimes committed by the ecig industry. Unfortunately we are being lumped in as one. We are the easier one to target. We need to do a much better job getting this message out.
I would also like to make a point regarding zero nicotine flavors being regulated by the FDA. The reason our industry is regulated by the FDA as a tobacco product is because the eliquid contains nicotine. This is the only reason the FDA has authority over these products. Because zero nicotine ejuice does not contain nicotine, it is no longer a tobacco product. While the FDA is going to try and enforce regulation of zero nicotine ejuice as a tobacco product by using the “intent to use” rationale, that argument is simply not valid. The FDA will also not be able to regulate zero nicotine ejuice as a drug/drug device combination either. Ejuice with no nicotine does not cause a change in the body and therefore will not be classified as a drug. This is only my educated opinion. I am not an attorney and am not making any legal claims.
I hope this was somewhat informative to people that have not been involved with ecigs and vapes as long as I have. Feel free to add, correct if you have information that I missed.
Feel free to share
In the Huff post today
www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/23/e-cigarette-warning-label_n_6921324.html
Big tobacco companies say their goal in pushing for firm control is not to hurt smaller competitors. Regulation will benefit consumers and e-cigarette companies alike by ensuring safety and quality standards and boosting confidence, they say. Small companies should not be exempt from responsible behaviour.
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Hey friends,
So I was just reading some news on my phone and I'm seeing several articles about BANNING FLAVORED EJUICE within 30 days....?
If this happens will none of us have access to flavored EJUICE in stores or online? Will it only be banning flavored ecigs (like juul) ?
Anyone with any info on this topic please let me know.. in my opinion, the tobacco industries lost WAY to much money due to vaping.. and this is their way to get it back. I feel a lot of people would go back to cancer sticks.. we know for sure smoking causes cancer, so why gave they yet to ban cigarettes?
I'm worried for the whole vaping community but I'm still not sure of the accurate details.
Kelly
Here in Oregon we have several bills that, if passed, would more or less make vaping illegal in its current form, and I know this isn't just happening here. I have to wonder how far they will be able to go with the bans and regulations, how "effective" they will be and how best to prepare for them. I think it's likely they will make high concentration nicotine solutions impossible to obtain for consumers, so at the least, it's probably a good call to stock up on unflavored nicotine, especially considering that whatever ejuice they do allow will no doubt be taxed to the point of being unaffordable.
The rest of their proposed bans would, in my mind (hopefully) be ineffectual in the long term. They want to ban flavored ejuice, but if the juice is zero nicotine, I don't see how they could get away with that since of course they can't ban PG, VG, or flavors, they just couldn't get away with that, yet, and the same goes for things like kanthal and cotton/rayon, too many uses outside of vaping.
They want to ban online sales from vape companies to our state which we all know would be a devastating blow to vapers. As for mechanical/regulated mods and other gear, what's to stop companies from selling them with a disclaimer that they are intended only for ornamental purposes, or for zero nic juice. What's to stop a vape shop from renaming itself "Functional Mechanical and Electronic Galleries" who operate on the assumption that people only use their products to vape zero nic juice.
It's insane to me that in a country that glorifies alcohol abuse, and has finally started to see the light on decriminalizing ........., that all this hysteria comes up about vaping, which is possibly the most benign chemical someone could enjoy (probably better for you than caffeine) and has given millions a way of breaking free from a habit that is far worse... you think the world is getting somewhere, but then something new comes out and the same old ignorance and fear rears its ugly head all over again, which is in turn milked by our politicians and backed by big tobacco, it all seems to be coming together for a perfect storm and it's not looking good in Oregon.
Your thoughts, what are you doing to prepare? What do you think is necessary?
Im vaping a nice juice and some of it flows into my mouth from a strong pull.
If it happens when Im vaping nana cream or space jam, god that is delicious.
Would drink if possible. Some of these companies should make hard candies in the exact flavour the ejuice is.
This video does a very good job of briefing us on what we need to know about the India ban. 42 million vapers (compared to about 10 million in the US) have been huge customers for the same Chinese products we buy. This hurts those companies and will effect us.
Hey guys, new to the forum, new to vaping, second thread. I have a few questions pertaining to mod clone companies, a-mod (wotofo?), infinite, tobeco. Im wanting to get a magma clone, I have a local vape shop and they sell them on sale as of this moment for $15, its made by tobeco though, are they a reputable company, do they make good things? From what I can see everyone seems to say really good things about infinite, but are these others good? They also have a Sir Lancelot copper mech mod for $30 made my a-mod, not tobeco. I wanted to go and pick these items up today, but with a little insight, any help would be appreciated, thanks!
EDIT: Yes I realize Im talking about two specific products here, that being the RDA and a mech mod, but Im really just curious about the quality and whether or not these other clone companies are reputable, so I made the decision to post this thread in 'Gerneral Vaping Discussion'.
-Links-
Mech Mod - https://kcvapespot.com/product/sir-lancelot-copper-clone/
Magma RDA- https://kcvapespot.com/product/magma-rda/
Alcohol beverage companies made estimated $17.5 billion on underage drinking, study says
By Sandee LaMotte, CNN 4 hrs ago
An estimated $17.5 billion of beer and liquor sales in the United States in 2016 was consumed by minors, with the products of three companies -- AB InBev, Molson Coors Beverage Co. and Diageo -- accounting for nearly 45% of underage youth consumption, a new study found.
Vaping companies are required by the FDA to provide a Premarket Tobacco Product Application (PMTA), which will include scientific data to show a product is appropriate for public consumption. Manufacturers have until Sept. 9 to submit their application, failing which their products will be pulled from the market. Once an application is submitted, companies can keep selling their products for a year from the date of deadline, without official approval, or until a negative action is taken by the FDA.
It seems juul has applied, any other brands？
Vaping is a multi-billion dollar per year industry. Once the USG reigns-in the industry, who will acquire the rights to it? Will there be more than one? Big tobacco? My money is on Amazon.