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The Seasonal Sales Suppliers forum is once again open for our ECF suppliers offering specials over the next week for Spring & Easter sales!
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Spring- Easter Sales 2015!
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E Cigarette Suppliers Forum
Vaping is a multi-billion dollar per year industry. Once the USG reigns-in the industry, who will acquire the rights to it? Will there be more than one? Big tobacco? My money is on Amazon.
Cheers all...
Its been a bit since I've dropped by.
As more & more Bitcoin Atm's arrive on the planet,
I dropped by to see if there's suppliers listed by payment method?
June 2015..I still see reviews Positive & Negative,
Suppliers by county.
How many still buy online compared to Brick&Mortar?
I notice a big difference between Asia & USA in crypto currency use too but
was delighted to see US online vendors accepting BTC.
Oh btw I dont have any "relationship" to any vendors or cryptocurrency just observing
Copied from another group.
With permission
I am the owner of Sapphyre Nicotine. I have been in the e-cig and vape business since 2009. This post is a little long but hopefully it is informative for some.
In 2009 the FDA started seizing shipments of electronic cigarettes under the claim that they were drug delivery devices and therefore need to pass FDA approval prior to being marketed and sold in the USA. The industry was just starting out and this was a big blow. Shipments of product were not allowed to enter the USA. Credit card companies were not allowing ecig companies to work with them. It was not looking good for ecigs. A company called Smoking Everywhere sued the FDA and made the argument that ecigs should be regulated as a tobacco product since they contained nicotine which is derived from Tobacco. Njoy joined the litigation and eventually took over when Smoking Everywhere went out of business. In 2010 Njoy won the litigation and ecigs ended up being regulated as tobacco products. This was the best outcome of two evils. The FDA appealed the decision and lost that as well. That’s when the ecig industry really started taking off. Bigger players got into the market and eventually RJR, Altria/Philip Morris, BAT and other big tobacco companies came out with ecig products. They quickly became the dominant sellers in c-stores. The tobacco companies were happy selling tobacco and menthol flavors only. That’s what they knew and that’s what they were good at.
A few years later eliquids and open systems started getting popular. These products were not very popular in c-stores. That is when vape stores started opening up. They were mainly concentrating on open system (eliquids, mods and great tasting flavors). For a short time c-stores tried to sell eliquids, but they didn’t have the know how or the time to educate customers. C-stores were good at selling closed systems and vape stores were good at open systems.
To the uninformed public we are all lumped in as one industry --- electronic cigarettes.
In reality there are 2 different industries that are somewhat related.
A) The ecig/closed system industry: In the USA as of Sep 2019 is a $6.4 billion industry. It is controlled mostly by big tobacco companies. Juul (Altria/PM), Blu (Imperial Tobacco), Vuse (British Tobacco, formerly RJR), Njoy (only independent supplier), Logic (Japan International). 75% of ecigs are sold in C-Stores, drug stores and food stores. As a comparison, regular cigarette sales in the USA are around $80 billion dollars and about 75% comes from c-stores.
While ecigs sales increased at a 40% year over year rate, regular cigarette sales dropped by 7% year over year. That is a large number that is troubling to big tobacco.
The closed system industry sells primarily tobacco and menthol/mint flavors. If flavors were banned it would not impact the industry very much. The companies selling closed systems are not going to join our fight to save flavors. They have no monetary incentive to do so. In addition all of these companies are going to apply for PMTA. They are not going to sue the FDA and risk getting PMTA approval unless it greatly impacts their business.
The vapor/open system industry: In the USA as of sep 2019 is a $2.6 billion industry. It is NOT controlled by a few large companies. There are a lot of hardware and ejuice suppliers. It is mostly sold at adult only vape stores. $1.7 Billion sold at vape stores, $350 million in c-stores and $550 million online. Lots of suppliers, distributors, small businesses are part of this industry. They mostly sell flavored eliquid as opposed to tobacco and menthol flavors.
Having been involved with both the ecig business and the vape business, I can say that they are completely different. The vape industry is getting punished for crimes committed by the ecig industry. Unfortunately we are being lumped in as one. We are the easier one to target. We need to do a much better job getting this message out.
I would also like to make a point regarding zero nicotine flavors being regulated by the FDA. The reason our industry is regulated by the FDA as a tobacco product is because the eliquid contains nicotine. This is the only reason the FDA has authority over these products. Because zero nicotine ejuice does not contain nicotine, it is no longer a tobacco product. While the FDA is going to try and enforce regulation of zero nicotine ejuice as a tobacco product by using the “intent to use” rationale, that argument is simply not valid. The FDA will also not be able to regulate zero nicotine ejuice as a drug/drug device combination either. Ejuice with no nicotine does not cause a change in the body and therefore will not be classified as a drug. This is only my educated opinion. I am not an attorney and am not making any legal claims.
I hope this was somewhat informative to people that have not been involved with ecigs and vapes as long as I have. Feel free to add, correct if you have information that I missed.
Feel free to share
From some article from the Indian Express, whatever publication this may be...
Vaping is marketed towards teenagers and the tobacco industry uses celebrities to promote it as being healthier than smoking,” senior author and professor Maja-Lisa Lochen of UiT The Arctic University of Norway, Tromso, was quoted as saying.
I'm not sure I ever recall the tobacco industry using celebrities to promote vaping. I must have missed that commercial.
I vape tobacco exclusively. Unfortunately good ones are few and far between.
It just dawned on me that with the new potential disaster looming over flavors, the vape industry's mixologists must be frantically scurrying around inventing new tobacco mixes.
Hopefully soon the market will be flooded with better ones
Actually I think there might be a whole array of new liquids released masked as "tobacco". Liquids containing the usual flavors with a hint of tobacco that can't be tasted.
This could open up a whole new trend in the vaping industry.
Maybe it's just my lack of knowledge on the matter, due to the fact that I don't care enough to look it up, but based off of the emails that I've received from JUUL over the past few years, it just seems like they don't have an ounce of fight in them.
First it was the banning of all flavored pods, meaning 85% of their product line is just out the window. I was actually surprised they survived as a company after that happened, but I guess the buckets of money they were making before the ban helped out a lot. I know the law is the law, and it's not like they could just continue selling flavored pods, but I just didn't see any push back from them at all on the matter. From my point of view, they just folded and accepted the loss.
I know they've taken other hits after the pod ban, but again, specifics elude me. So, what sparked my interest in making this post was an email they sent out on April 20th of this year that I just now read...
"Final call - order before our online sales pause on April 22nd."
It basically reads something about federal regulatory changes...blah blah blah. So ALL online sales are just gone now. So does JUUL have people in the trenches actually fighting for the vaping community? I just haven't come across much proof, or rumblings in the media about them actually fighting for the many, many, many millions of dollars they have lost out on due to them taking huge L's left and right. I don't even use JUUL products anymore, so if you're wondering why I care so much about the matter, I'm wondering the same myself. It's just odd. I guess the parts of big tobacco who didn't own any shares in the vape industry finally got tired of losing money to it. Anyway. That's a rant.
Didn't know where to post this (please move if needed)
A YT video with several reviewers and vape suppliers... a rant basically, but very interesting conversation: