Vaping, A New Dawn For Former And Current Smokers

Hi guys! First of all sorry for my bad english. I started to vape at February and I love it, thanks to the e-cig I don't want a tobacco cigarette anymore. By the way, for some reason, about 15 days ago I realized that e-liquid nicotine gives me agitation and jittery that I've never had before. Sure, nicotine is a stimulant like coffeine but as we know it's a relaxant, too. And this stimulant/relaxant combo is what I've had with tobacco cigarettes and with vaping until 15 days ago. To be sure that (liquid) nicotine is the culprit, I've tried everything. With nic free e-liquid I have no agitation, even though I become a little sad because actually I can't stay without nicotine for a whole day. You may say: "reduce the nic dosage" and that's what I did, but unfortunately even with 1.5 mg/ml I have this issue And I don't vape too much. So I decided to do another test: for one day I smoked tobacco cigarettes. Guess what? No agitation and jittery. This is so weird, I can't believe it! Because I can expect it if I vape too much at high nic dosage, but I vape at only 3 mg/ml and not too much. And as I said before even with 1.5 mg/ml. I started to vape at February with 9 mg/ml, then I gradually lowered the dose without any problem (until 15 days ago). Also, I've tried different nicotine e-liquids but nothing has changed. Now I don't know what to think other than I suddenly become intolerant to liquid nicotine, even though I don't have nausea, dizziness, headache, stomach problems and other symptoms that make me think: "you're intolerant for sure". What do you think guys? Is there something that I can do? I don't want stop vaping, especially because I don't want to smoke again Thank you so much in advance guys.  

I vape tobacco exclusively. Unfortunately good ones are few and far between.
It just dawned on me that with the new potential disaster looming over flavors, the vape industry's mixologists must be frantically scurrying around inventing new tobacco mixes.
Hopefully soon the market will be flooded with better ones
Actually I think there might be a whole array of new liquids released masked as "tobacco". Liquids containing the usual flavors with a hint of tobacco that can't be tasted.
This could open up a whole new trend in the vaping industry.  

Teddy Bears what? I am going to get to that very quickly...

So the whole premise behind the 'flavor' ban seems to be premised on the idea that tobacco flavors are acceptable, but fruit/candy flavors might entice our teen children. Our children, as we refer to them, about to be 18 year old legal 'Adults' in the USA in a short period of time, 18, age enough to join the military, will find the flavor of tobacco so offensive, that they will be unable to handle it?

"Son/Daughter, are you vaping? No way mom, tobacco is so icky! Can I have another bowl of fruit loops?"

It reminds me of coffee, and how many here thought their first cup of coffee was kind of nasty tasting, but you grew into it, even enjoy it? Somehow though Starbucks has survived and thrived. Did you know that coffee can raise your heart rate? Maybe we should keep feeding our teens the McDonald's child meals, because you know, the flavors get to be more challenging as you grow up. (yes I am being very facetious).

Is this really the way we see our teenagers now? No flavors but candy/fruit will entice them, and Teddy Bears of course, teens don't outgrow their stuffed animals either.

This is our government's solution though, ban flavors other then tobacco. It's so deeply incorrect in premise, it's hard to even argue why it's flawed.  

Hey everyone! I've been casually vaping off and on for two years now, but I finally took the plunge and started vaping exclusively. I am almost 4 days tobacco free! It's the longest I've been without tobacco in 7 years!!! It's been a lot easier than I thought it would be.

Something that keeps me going is to think about the horrible realities of being a tobacco user.

What are the things about tobacco you are glad to have behind you? The smell? The taste? The money? What did you hate most about smoking?

I could really use the little reminders throughout the day.  

Copied from another group.
With permission

I am the owner of Sapphyre Nicotine. I have been in the e-cig and vape business since 2009. This post is a little long but hopefully it is informative for some.

In 2009 the FDA started seizing shipments of electronic cigarettes under the claim that they were drug delivery devices and therefore need to pass FDA approval prior to being marketed and sold in the USA. The industry was just starting out and this was a big blow. Shipments of product were not allowed to enter the USA. Credit card companies were not allowing ecig companies to work with them. It was not looking good for ecigs. A company called Smoking Everywhere sued the FDA and made the argument that ecigs should be regulated as a tobacco product since they contained nicotine which is derived from Tobacco. Njoy joined the litigation and eventually took over when Smoking Everywhere went out of business. In 2010 Njoy won the litigation and ecigs ended up being regulated as tobacco products. This was the best outcome of two evils. The FDA appealed the decision and lost that as well. That’s when the ecig industry really started taking off. Bigger players got into the market and eventually RJR, Altria/Philip Morris, BAT and other big tobacco companies came out with ecig products. They quickly became the dominant sellers in c-stores. The tobacco companies were happy selling tobacco and menthol flavors only. That’s what they knew and that’s what they were good at.

A few years later eliquids and open systems started getting popular. These products were not very popular in c-stores. That is when vape stores started opening up. They were mainly concentrating on open system (eliquids, mods and great tasting flavors). For a short time c-stores tried to sell eliquids, but they didn’t have the know how or the time to educate customers. C-stores were good at selling closed systems and vape stores were good at open systems.

To the uninformed public we are all lumped in as one industry --- electronic cigarettes.

In reality there are 2 different industries that are somewhat related.

A) The ecig/closed system industry: In the USA as of Sep 2019 is a $6.4 billion industry. It is controlled mostly by big tobacco companies. Juul (Altria/PM), Blu (Imperial Tobacco), Vuse (British Tobacco, formerly RJR), Njoy (only independent supplier), Logic (Japan International). 75% of ecigs are sold in C-Stores, drug stores and food stores. As a comparison, regular cigarette sales in the USA are around $80 billion dollars and about 75% comes from c-stores.

While ecigs sales increased at a 40% year over year rate, regular cigarette sales dropped by 7% year over year. That is a large number that is troubling to big tobacco.

The closed system industry sells primarily tobacco and menthol/mint flavors. If flavors were banned it would not impact the industry very much. The companies selling closed systems are not going to join our fight to save flavors. They have no monetary incentive to do so. In addition all of these companies are going to apply for PMTA. They are not going to sue the FDA and risk getting PMTA approval unless it greatly impacts their business.

The vapor/open system industry: In the USA as of sep 2019 is a $2.6 billion industry. It is NOT controlled by a few large companies. There are a lot of hardware and ejuice suppliers. It is mostly sold at adult only vape stores. $1.7 Billion sold at vape stores, $350 million in c-stores and $550 million online. Lots of suppliers, distributors, small businesses are part of this industry. They mostly sell flavored eliquid as opposed to tobacco and menthol flavors.

Having been involved with both the ecig business and the vape business, I can say that they are completely different. The vape industry is getting punished for crimes committed by the ecig industry. Unfortunately we are being lumped in as one. We are the easier one to target. We need to do a much better job getting this message out.

I would also like to make a point regarding zero nicotine flavors being regulated by the FDA. The reason our industry is regulated by the FDA as a tobacco product is because the eliquid contains nicotine. This is the only reason the FDA has authority over these products. Because zero nicotine ejuice does not contain nicotine, it is no longer a tobacco product. While the FDA is going to try and enforce regulation of zero nicotine ejuice as a tobacco product by using the “intent to use” rationale, that argument is simply not valid. The FDA will also not be able to regulate zero nicotine ejuice as a drug/drug device combination either. Ejuice with no nicotine does not cause a change in the body and therefore will not be classified as a drug. This is only my educated opinion. I am not an attorney and am not making any legal claims.

I hope this was somewhat informative to people that have not been involved with ecigs and vapes as long as I have. Feel free to add, correct if you have information that I missed.

Feel free to share  

If people under a certain age are not allowed to purchase vape items, then what's the issue?

Just don't sell to any minors, and handle it like alcohol and tobacco. Go after any stores or vendors that break these rules and that sells to any minor and hit them with hefty fines or prosecution. Problem solved.

I reject the idiotic, false and unscientific argument that certain types of flavors are only suitable for kids. An adult is not allowed to like fruit flavors or desert flavors or any other type of flavor?

Do adults suddenly lose their sense of taste when they age, and they'll be content vaping poor tobacco imitation flavors and menthol for the rest of their lives?

I'm an adult, and my favorite flavors are custard type flavors. Just because I used to smoke, that doesn't mean that I should have to vape and like tobacco flavors. You don't ban all sorts of flavors and deny adults who are ex-smokers the opportunity to continue to be smoke free, just because they were lucky enough to have found and switched to vaping.

Sorry if I sound cynical, but so what if a handful of people have reportedly died because they were foolish enough to use blackmarket counterfeit items? Items that have zero to do with nic based vaping I should add.

How many millions of people die from tobacco related diseases?

Millions is a lot more than a handful last I checked, and the only thing that banning vaping and vaping related items will accomplish is to ensure that many more people will be added to the list of the dead as many will return to cigs and many current cig smokers will never make the switch to vaping, as the politicians seek to deny people the opportunity to stay off of cigs.

If they ever find a cure for cancer, I wouldn't be surprised if they ban that too, because 7 people happened to get some ill side effects from it.  

THERE ARE ONLY 116 COMMENTS POSTED ABOUT THE PMTA ON THE OFFICIAL WEBSITE

Here is the link: Premarket Tobacco Product Applications and Recordkeeping Requirementsv

and here is the post I made to the FDA:

Smoking costs millions and millions of lives across the globe annually, and people suffer through their addiction to cigarette tobacco, pipe tobacco and chewing tobacco. They suffer hideously disabling and disfiguring diseases and even still, many smokers are stuck chained to the yoke of that addiction until the day they die, and sometimes they unwittingly take loved ones and even their pets with them through continuous exposure to second hand smoke and the residues it leaves behind for children to play on. It was a horrible, horrible thought to realize that anyone in close proximity to MY cigarette was being exposed to toxic waste.

I discovered vaping after I had exhausted every other avenue that I could find in my efforts to quit smoking for good. I was determined. I gave my word to my father as he was dying of lung cancer. That is what he asked me to do the last time I saw him alive. He was a wonderful, witty man who enjoyed cross-country skiing and horseback riding and had never been sick a day in his life until he was diagnosed with lung cancer.

The day my father passed away I was taking Wellbutrin, and I was suffering hideous side effects from the drug. Wellbutrin was one of many, many medications and products that I had tried, and failed, to quit with. Of course, big tobacco companies were banking on that, which is why they invested so much of their marketing strategy on enticing people when they were very, very young.

This device that I have in my hand right now is what saved me from carrying on with that relentless cycle of failure that I had become so used to. It is the device itself and the flavored juices that I use with it which made that possible and made cigarettes obsolete. I can do things with my vape that I could never do with a cigarette, and because my device is so vastly superior to fire at the end of a stick which tastes like rotten sewage mixed with car exhaust when inhaled, quitting was actually quite enjoyable. I control the temperature of my vapor and the strength of the nicotine I inhale. I can decide if I want to feel the vapor in my throat, or not.

Nothing soothed my irritated throat and lungs the way vape did when I first quit. It also soothed my nerves because while I did still had access to nicotine, I was also withdrawing from the many other alkaloids that these tobacco companies had incorporated into their products which enhanced the addicting effects of the nicotine. But cigarettes had finally met their match with this wonderful device because I simply woke up one day and realized that I hadn't smoked in quite some time and furthermore, I had no desire to whatsoever. Wow. Just wow.

It gave me back the control that I had been denied for over three decades of my life, and I am no longer a slave to an outrageously priced killer bent on decimating my wallet while inflicting a very long and slow death sentence on me.

But now I and thousands and perhaps millions of others are faced with these sweeping and draconian PMTA regulations and flavor bans because you want to take that control away, demolish the entire vaping industry and hand the wreckage of what's left over back to big tobacco so they they can reconstitute 'vaping' into a cigarette styled device filled with cigarette flavored liquid because they're addicts - they will have to take what we force-feed them.

By doing this, you will be destroying the lives of all of those people who put their heart and souls into creating and developing and producing these devices and the juices that we buy. You are taking away my right to read the safety data sheets that many of these companies freely provide because they are well aware that a lot of us want to know exactly what we are buying and putting into our bodies. We have trust issues, you see.

You are depriving people who have not yet made the switch the opportunity to do so, and you are trying to take the very thing that saved, not only my life, by my sense of self and self worth right out of my hands and the hands of everybody else who successfully QUIT their deadly addiction to toxic smoke, while telling us that what is good for us is to have a dubious fluid produced by even more dubious companies inserted into a cigarette like device that tastes like cigarettes. And let's face it, that will cause thousands of people to go back to the habit they thought they had given up for good -- or turn to a black market source in order to continue doing what they were doing before their supply was cut off.

That would be an unbelievable tragedy and all the more tragic because an agency of the government is what would force them to do it. These regulations are a slap in the face to any logical argument about the safety of inhaling my flavored vapor as opposed to smoke. I am happy and proud that I was finally able to accomplish the promise that I made to a dying man. What was your promise?  

I'm a 45yo New Zealander, and I have absolutely no axe to grind, except one:

I smoked for 25 years. Therefore the tobacco companies have had more than their fair share of my money, and more importantly my health.

Thanks to vaping, using RBAs and mods, and diying my own ejuices - I've been smoke-free for 20 months.

One company that looks like winning, with all the fake news and hysteria being dredged up in USA over vaping is Phillip Morris International. And I'm not talking about their cigarette products - but rather their IQOS product.

A Device That Heats Tobacco, But Doesn't Burn It, Can Now Be Sold in the U.S. Here's What to Know About IQOS

The FDA have already approved this product for sale in USA. And how does the IQOS work?

the FDA says the pen-like IQOS device heats, but does not burn, “tobacco-filled sticks” wrapped in paper, creating an aerosol that contains nicotine. Marlboro, an Altria brand, will make the tobacco sticks used inside the cartridge, which will come in menthol and unflavored versions.
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It's pretty much a cigarette, that goes into a device which 'heats' the tobacco, so you can inhale it.

Here's Why IQOS Could Completely Own the U.S. E-Cig Market | The Motley Fool

And how safe is it?

Comparison of Chemicals in Mainstream Smoke in Heat-not-burn Tobacco and Combustion Cigarettes. - PubMed - NCBI

There is little scientific data, however, of the hazards and toxicity of iQOS. In this study, we evaluated several harmful compounds (nicotine, tar, carbon monoxide (CO) and tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNAs)) in the mainstream smoke and fillers of iQOS, and compared their concentrations with those from conventional combustion cigarettes.

The concentrations of nicotine in tobacco fillers and the mainstream smoke of iQOS were almost the same as those of conventional combustion cigarettes, while the concentration of TSNAs was one fifth and CO was one hundredth of those of conventional combustion cigarettes. These toxic compounds are not completely removed from the mainstream smoke of iQOS, making it necessary to consider the health effects and regulation of iQOS.
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iQOS may not be as harm-free as claimed, study finds

The University of California study found that, since the device could only be used for six-minutes before it needed to be recharged, it may cause some people to shorten the interval between puffs in order to make sure they did not waste any of the tobacco stick which could increase the possible toxic exposure.

But of greater concern was that the polymer filter melted slightly during use and released formaldehyde cyanohydrin, a toxic substance which could be fatal to humans. The compound is metabolised in the liver and broken down into formaldehyde and cyanide.

"This study has shown that the iQOS system may not be as harm-free as claimed and also emphasises the urgent need for further safety testing as the popularity and user base of this product is growing rapidly," the study concluded.

University of Otago public health and marketing Professor Janet Hoek said the findings led her to question whether it really was a "reduced harm" product as claimed by the manufacturers.

If users inhaled more frequently as it was suggested, it was likely they would "increase their nicotine intake and exposure to harmful compounds present in the inhaled aerosol", she said.

She said those who had tried unsuccessfully to quit smoking were better off considering e-cigarettes.
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Just my

 

So, I think there has been a lot of back and forth as to whether vaping is really safer than cigarettes. We as Vapers know that it is safer because we have done the research. But I think in the eyes of smokers and non-smokers, they really don't know if it is safer. Sometimes it even has me questioning whether vaping is healthier. But then my sanity takes over.

This post was sparked by watching a video from Grimm Green just now. The first person I've ever seen to finally say that vaping is 95% safer than smoking. And quit with all the Bull Shi it, listening to anyone who tells you otherwise.

It's a shame that only vapers know it's safer. Everyone else can't be bothered to do the research. They just listen to all the mainstream BS! "Yea, vaping is just as bad, people are dying cause of vaping." "Yea, they're banning vape mail because it's the same thing as tobacco."  

Vaping is too enjoyable and comforting that I can stay in my room for 2 hours scrolling my phone and not go out.Part of my problem is that I am a closet vaper,so I am planning to use nicotine gum when I am out with my family as I am shy to let them see i vape and also they always brainwashed me to quit vaping,that’s why I Vape alone in my room.Today is my first day trying out nicotine gum,4mg and I can sit with my family even though I don’t talk(that’s another story cause of my MI) but at least I am presence.Anyway,does any of you vapers use smokeless tobacco/nicotinic product?