Regarding Juul

Hey friends,

So I was just reading some news on my phone and I'm seeing several articles about BANNING FLAVORED EJUICE within 30 days....?

If this happens will none of us have access to flavored EJUICE in stores or online? Will it only be banning flavored ecigs (like juul) ?

Anyone with any info on this topic please let me know.. in my opinion, the tobacco industries lost WAY to much money due to vaping.. and this is their way to get it back. I feel a lot of people would go back to cancer sticks.. we know for sure smoking causes cancer, so why gave they yet to ban cigarettes?

I'm worried for the whole vaping community but I'm still not sure of the accurate details.

Kelly  

Don't really know why im sharing this, guess im just wondering if anyone else has had this experience or not. The other day I was at the local B&M and a minivan pulls into the parking lot, im friends with the shop owner so I hangout with him regularly and noticed the minivan as soon as it pulls up, the guy sits there for about 10 minutes just sitting there and writing things down, our conversation goes "Are you expecting a delivery or something?" "no why" "This dudes been sitting here for about 10 minutes just writing away" "Maybe its my first audit or something" the dude finally gets out of the van and comes in "How long have you guys been operating here?" Jon the owner says "about 7 months now, what can i help you with?" "My name is Chris with the National Tobacco (i forget exactly what he said) and I cover everywhere from statesville to asheville, im from asheville but was across the street getting some food and seen your shop, i'd never noticed it before." We live about 2 hours from asheville, I dont actually think he just stumbled upon the shop but who knows. Then he says "We're trying to get into the electronic cigarette market and have started making a brand called V2, ever heard of them?" I said, "I've seen them in gas stations a couple times, but other then that I've had no experience with them" He then says "what about the zig zag kits? Ever tried them?" "never tried one, but i've seen them once or twice" "Well that was one of our lines, the v2 is our next level model to kind of keep up with the new stuff thats coming out, I have a box of them out in my van that i can bring in to give you an idea" the dude then walks out to his van, we just kind of wait on him until he gets back then he returns with this big v2 display box "We're selling these retail for 450.00 but we can sell you three for 150 each, thats around 900 dollars of profit if you buy today" Jon says" Well i've never heard of the brand so i'd have to look into it more first" "Alright thats fine but..." then he gave this super long sales pitch about how it will be better then anything else on the market and ahead of its time with the magnetic tanks and blah blah blah, then Jon went behind the counter and pulled out this huge box and says "This takes three batteries and goes up to 240 watts, starter kits are great and all, but they will never really be ahead of the times unless you can build a sub ohm starter kit and thats not cheap" the sales rep dude then says "Alright, well im just going to leave my card, just give me a call if you decide you need any of our products" And he left, I guess the best thing that comes out of this is i can ask, has anyone ever dealt with any v2 products? How are they with reliability, battery life ect. I'd like to get back to Jon with some reviews, maybe they could be better then the regular egos and this is a good deal for the local shop.  

Juul threw millions of dollars at Washington. It hasn’t bought much.

Juul Labs has spent millions of dollars on lobbying, hired high-profile Trump administration officials, and blanketed Washington with ads touting its efforts against underage vaping.

None of that was enough to keep President Donald Trump from moving to ban flavored e-cigarettes on Wednesday, delivering a blow to the dominant vaping company and its rivals.

“Vaping has become a very big business as I understand it, a giant business in a very short period of time,” Trump told reporters in the Oval Office, sitting alongside Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar. “But we can't allow people to get sick and we can't have our youth be so affected.”

Neither Trump nor Azar mentioned Juul in their remarks. But Scott Gottlieb, who pressed for greater regulation of vaping as Trump’s Food and Drug Administration commissioner before stepping down earlier this year, said the move would have an outsize impact on the San Francisco-based company.

“This problem was largely created by the cartridge-based Juul products in my opinion,” Gottlieb said in a statement to POLITICO.​
 

Flavor ban on flavored cartridges will do kids more harm than good. If a minor wants to vape, smoke cigs, drink, or other things that are against the law and harmful for them no one can stop them except the parents.

What's going to happen is kids will buy blackmarket refilled cartridges or refill their own. I've never used a Juul but it took me 1 minutes on youtube to find out how to refill a empty Juul cartridge.

Most cartridges can be refilled so banning them is really a joke

This ban will only push kids to worse things, that's sad.

The only reason the Feds/state/local government haVE been after vaping is "LOSS OF TAX REVENUE FROM SMOKERS QUITTING". If vaping was taxes as heavy as smoking the Gov. could care less about vape banning.  

Folks, I apologize for the newbie questions but trust me, I've spent a lot of time reading and still have some confusion - partly because I find contradictory information everywhere. I hate when people come on forums asking questions before doing their research but I've tried.

While I've been vaping for over a year, it's been with a Juul. (3rd party pods) My flavored pod horde is about to be exhausted so here I am.

What I'm looking for is something comparable to what my Juul with 3% pods gave me - smoothness (I do NOT want a harsh throat feel like many seem to be after), availability of nice flavors, no need for a lot of nicotine, no need for 'clouds'. I was using the 3% not really because of the lower nicotine but because it wasn't as harsh as the 5-6% pods.

I guess my question is what type juice and coil resistance should I be looking for? I purchased a Smok NFix and like the device but I seem to be getting a tad bit of juice in my mouth regardless of what wattage I set it to. (I've tried multiple .8 Ohm coils and 3mg juice labeled for "subohm" use) I also seem to be getting a lot more nicotine than I'm used to.

I've also tried a Novo 2 and occasionally get that juice in my mouth but not nearly as often. I also seem to be getting a lot more nicotine than I'm used to.

Obviously I'm doing something wrong.

Another thing I'm confused about is the wide range of nicotine strengths - 3% on up to 55+%? I must be missing something because the 3% seems to be killing me, again I must be doing something wrong.

Suggestions for what I should be looking at to find something comparable to the 3% Juul?

Thanks  

The best strategy according Demetris and PBusardo is to hire a professional PR company to combat the false information that the news media and anti-vaping crowd has been churning out every day/nite on TV and social media. That will take a LOT of money (millions according to D & P). The US vaping industry doesn't have that type of money, but the big manufacturers in China do. China manufacturers will be affected by this if the US vaping industry fails, because it will fail if a flavor ban is successful.



Trump is the key person in all of this. He's the one who will make the final call by using his John Hancock, and he's been known to go against the grain of "The Swamp" in Washington. He is basically only interested in satisfying his voter base. All vapers need to personally contact Trump via the White House and tell him, as a voter, that if he is going to get your vote in 2020 he needs to NOT go forward with a flavor ban. Regardless of how you feel about Trump, or whether you'll actually vote for him when the time comes, this must be done and would take each of us only about 5 - 10 minutes of our time.

_________________________

Contact the White House | The White House

WHITE HOUSE: Comment line 202-456-1111 | Switch board 202-456-1414 (the switch board is the best approach as it will put you on hold and give you a chance to speak)
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Trump probably doesn't have a clue about vaping. He doesn't understand how important the use of flavored e-liquid is to the success to stop smoking. Having only "tobacco flavors" to choose from just won't cut it for the majority of vapers.

What he must understand is that a flavor ban will likely destroy the vaping industry in the US. Vape shops will not be able remain viable and will close - a loss of thousands of jobs and small businesses. This will affect his "sterling" numbers of the lowest unemployment in recent memory. There has to be at least 10,000 potential voters who have something to do with the vaping community (probably more), about the number of votes that gave him the presidency. He's not going to want to lose that many votes in the next election.

A flavor ban will result in creating its own Black Market. Many vapers will resort to making their own flavored e-liquid. How did that work out for the homemade black market THC vials that killed 6 people and put over 400 people in intensive care?

Smokers looking to quit smoking will no longer have vape shops or US based online vendors to purchase e-cigarettes. Many vapers will return to smoking, which will increase the 400,000 smokers who died last year.

Please tale a few minutes of your time to contact President Trump.  

Juul’s Valuation Is Going Up in Smoke After China Terminates Sales
https://www.ccn.com/juuls-valuation-vaporizing/

Mere days after launching in the world's largest tobacco market, Juul, a leading e-cigarette producer, had its sales terminated in China; meanwhile, stock estimates have been reduced to little more than vapor, with the firm's $38 billion valuation slowly evaporating.

Just last week the popular vaporizer launched a range of its products on two of China's major e-commerce markets, JD.com, and the Alibaba-backed Tmall. However, things quickly came to a halt after Juul's products were removed from the markets, seemingly without explanation.​

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

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Copied from another group.
With permission

I am the owner of Sapphyre Nicotine. I have been in the e-cig and vape business since 2009. This post is a little long but hopefully it is informative for some.

In 2009 the FDA started seizing shipments of electronic cigarettes under the claim that they were drug delivery devices and therefore need to pass FDA approval prior to being marketed and sold in the USA. The industry was just starting out and this was a big blow. Shipments of product were not allowed to enter the USA. Credit card companies were not allowing ecig companies to work with them. It was not looking good for ecigs. A company called Smoking Everywhere sued the FDA and made the argument that ecigs should be regulated as a tobacco product since they contained nicotine which is derived from Tobacco. Njoy joined the litigation and eventually took over when Smoking Everywhere went out of business. In 2010 Njoy won the litigation and ecigs ended up being regulated as tobacco products. This was the best outcome of two evils. The FDA appealed the decision and lost that as well. That’s when the ecig industry really started taking off. Bigger players got into the market and eventually RJR, Altria/Philip Morris, BAT and other big tobacco companies came out with ecig products. They quickly became the dominant sellers in c-stores. The tobacco companies were happy selling tobacco and menthol flavors only. That’s what they knew and that’s what they were good at.

A few years later eliquids and open systems started getting popular. These products were not very popular in c-stores. That is when vape stores started opening up. They were mainly concentrating on open system (eliquids, mods and great tasting flavors). For a short time c-stores tried to sell eliquids, but they didn’t have the know how or the time to educate customers. C-stores were good at selling closed systems and vape stores were good at open systems.

To the uninformed public we are all lumped in as one industry --- electronic cigarettes.

In reality there are 2 different industries that are somewhat related.

A) The ecig/closed system industry: In the USA as of Sep 2019 is a $6.4 billion industry. It is controlled mostly by big tobacco companies. Juul (Altria/PM), Blu (Imperial Tobacco), Vuse (British Tobacco, formerly RJR), Njoy (only independent supplier), Logic (Japan International). 75% of ecigs are sold in C-Stores, drug stores and food stores. As a comparison, regular cigarette sales in the USA are around $80 billion dollars and about 75% comes from c-stores.

While ecigs sales increased at a 40% year over year rate, regular cigarette sales dropped by 7% year over year. That is a large number that is troubling to big tobacco.

The closed system industry sells primarily tobacco and menthol/mint flavors. If flavors were banned it would not impact the industry very much. The companies selling closed systems are not going to join our fight to save flavors. They have no monetary incentive to do so. In addition all of these companies are going to apply for PMTA. They are not going to sue the FDA and risk getting PMTA approval unless it greatly impacts their business.

The vapor/open system industry: In the USA as of sep 2019 is a $2.6 billion industry. It is NOT controlled by a few large companies. There are a lot of hardware and ejuice suppliers. It is mostly sold at adult only vape stores. $1.7 Billion sold at vape stores, $350 million in c-stores and $550 million online. Lots of suppliers, distributors, small businesses are part of this industry. They mostly sell flavored eliquid as opposed to tobacco and menthol flavors.

Having been involved with both the ecig business and the vape business, I can say that they are completely different. The vape industry is getting punished for crimes committed by the ecig industry. Unfortunately we are being lumped in as one. We are the easier one to target. We need to do a much better job getting this message out.

I would also like to make a point regarding zero nicotine flavors being regulated by the FDA. The reason our industry is regulated by the FDA as a tobacco product is because the eliquid contains nicotine. This is the only reason the FDA has authority over these products. Because zero nicotine ejuice does not contain nicotine, it is no longer a tobacco product. While the FDA is going to try and enforce regulation of zero nicotine ejuice as a tobacco product by using the “intent to use” rationale, that argument is simply not valid. The FDA will also not be able to regulate zero nicotine ejuice as a drug/drug device combination either. Ejuice with no nicotine does not cause a change in the body and therefore will not be classified as a drug. This is only my educated opinion. I am not an attorney and am not making any legal claims.

I hope this was somewhat informative to people that have not been involved with ecigs and vapes as long as I have. Feel free to add, correct if you have information that I missed.

Feel free to share  

Franklin County mother sues JUUL, vape shop over twin daughters alleged addiction to vaping

A Franklin County mother is suing e-cigarette manufacturer JUUL Labs, a Hilliard vape shop and its owners – alleging that her twin daughters became addicted to vaping through JUUL’s online marketing campaigns. The lawsuit also alleges that the Hilliard Smoke House allowed the girls to purchase the product with ease – despite being underage.​

Nasty development. Vape shops can't afford expensive lawyers.  

Not sure where to post this, but some pods have bad spit back. I'm trying to make the switch back. I slipped when my mother died in April(was vaping only for 4-5yr's before that). The device itself was 99cent's at a local store so I grabbed 3 of them. The pods have been so random tho 3/6 where fine in 1 flavor. 2/2 where fine in another, the 3rd flavor was 0/2. Was wonder if other's where having this issue maybe switch to Juul? Before I can get back from mtl to dl with my other mods/rda's/juice.