Today My Package Got Seized By Customs In Jamaica (e-cigs Are Not Banned Though) Need Help With A Few Things.

And so it begins......

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration said Wednesday it plans to ban the sale of non-tobacco-flavored electronic cigarettes amid a vaping crisis.

“The Trump Administration is making it clear that we intend to clear the market of flavored e-cigarettes to reverse the deeply concerning epidemic of youth e-cigarette use that is impacting children, families, schools and communities,” Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said in a statement. “We will not stand idly by as these products become an on-ramp to combustible cigarettes or nicotine addiction for a generation of youth.”

Michigan became the first state to prohibit sales of most flavored e-cigarettes last week in a bold move to curb the underage vaping epidemic. The ban, which will take effect in a few weeks, will cover both online and in-store sales of all e-cigarette flavors except tobacco.

Trump administration plans to ban sale of flavored electronic cigarettes  

I'm a 45yo New Zealander, and I have absolutely no axe to grind, except one:

I smoked for 25 years. Therefore the tobacco companies have had more than their fair share of my money, and more importantly my health.

Thanks to vaping, using RBAs and mods, and diying my own ejuices - I've been smoke-free for 20 months.

One company that looks like winning, with all the fake news and hysteria being dredged up in USA over vaping is Phillip Morris International. And I'm not talking about their cigarette products - but rather their IQOS product.

A Device That Heats Tobacco, But Doesn't Burn It, Can Now Be Sold in the U.S. Here's What to Know About IQOS

The FDA have already approved this product for sale in USA. And how does the IQOS work?

the FDA says the pen-like IQOS device heats, but does not burn, “tobacco-filled sticks” wrapped in paper, creating an aerosol that contains nicotine. Marlboro, an Altria brand, will make the tobacco sticks used inside the cartridge, which will come in menthol and unflavored versions.
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It's pretty much a cigarette, that goes into a device which 'heats' the tobacco, so you can inhale it.

Here's Why IQOS Could Completely Own the U.S. E-Cig Market | The Motley Fool

And how safe is it?

Comparison of Chemicals in Mainstream Smoke in Heat-not-burn Tobacco and Combustion Cigarettes. - PubMed - NCBI

There is little scientific data, however, of the hazards and toxicity of iQOS. In this study, we evaluated several harmful compounds (nicotine, tar, carbon monoxide (CO) and tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNAs)) in the mainstream smoke and fillers of iQOS, and compared their concentrations with those from conventional combustion cigarettes.

The concentrations of nicotine in tobacco fillers and the mainstream smoke of iQOS were almost the same as those of conventional combustion cigarettes, while the concentration of TSNAs was one fifth and CO was one hundredth of those of conventional combustion cigarettes. These toxic compounds are not completely removed from the mainstream smoke of iQOS, making it necessary to consider the health effects and regulation of iQOS.
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iQOS may not be as harm-free as claimed, study finds

The University of California study found that, since the device could only be used for six-minutes before it needed to be recharged, it may cause some people to shorten the interval between puffs in order to make sure they did not waste any of the tobacco stick which could increase the possible toxic exposure.

But of greater concern was that the polymer filter melted slightly during use and released formaldehyde cyanohydrin, a toxic substance which could be fatal to humans. The compound is metabolised in the liver and broken down into formaldehyde and cyanide.

"This study has shown that the iQOS system may not be as harm-free as claimed and also emphasises the urgent need for further safety testing as the popularity and user base of this product is growing rapidly," the study concluded.

University of Otago public health and marketing Professor Janet Hoek said the findings led her to question whether it really was a "reduced harm" product as claimed by the manufacturers.

If users inhaled more frequently as it was suggested, it was likely they would "increase their nicotine intake and exposure to harmful compounds present in the inhaled aerosol", she said.

She said those who had tried unsuccessfully to quit smoking were better off considering e-cigarettes.
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Just my

 

I've just received a notice that Paypal is changing its terms and conditions, and buried deep inside the changes I found this.
PayPal said:
The Acceptable Use Policy currently prohibits use of PayPal for activities that violate applicable law or industry regulations regarding the sale of tobacco products or prescription drugs and devices. We're replacing that prohibition with new policy language covering these types of items, as well as e-cigarettes. Under the new language, use of PayPal for cigarette transactions will be prohibited. In addition, merchants will be permitted to use PayPal for sales of non-cigarette tobacco products, e-cigarettes, and prescription drugs and devices only with PayPal’s pre-approval.

...


The relevant parts of the chart under Activities Requiring Approval will be revised to read as follows: “PayPal requires pre-approval to accept payments for certain services as detailed in the chart below. [TABLE="width: 552"]
[TR]
[TD] Service Requiring Pre-Approval​
[/TD]
[TD] Contact Information​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] … selling … non-cigarette tobacco products, e-cigarettes or prescription drugs/devices.[/TD]
[TD] Please send contact information, business website URL and brief business summary to aup@paypal.com[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
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Let's hope that this doesn't involve you telling them and them freezing your account while they sit on your application for months. But it seems like they might at least be warming to the idea that e-cigs are not the root of all evil.  

Trump Administration Weighs Ban on Flavored E-Cigarettes

Sitting in the Oval Office with Alex M. Azar II, the secretary of Health and Human Services, and Dr. Ned Sharpless, the acting Food and Drug Administration commissioner, President Trump acknowledged that there was a vaping problem, and said, “We’re going to have to do something about it.”

Mr. Azar said that the F.D.A. would outline a plan within the coming weeks for removing most flavored e-cigarettes that are not tobacco products from the market.

Pressure also began to mount as Michael R. Bloomberg, the former mayor of New York, decided to step in by announcing a $160 million push to ban flavored e-cigarettes. Long an opponent of traditional smoking, the former mayor said his organization, Bloomberg Philanthropies, would seek prohibitions of flavored e-cigarettes in at least 20 cities and states.




From left, Dr. Norman Sharpless, the acting F.D.A. commissioner, Melania Trump, President Trump and Alex M. Azar II, the health and human services secretary, discussing flavored e-cigarettes in the Oval Office on Wednesday.  

I know that there are threads covering bans in individual states, but I thought it might be a good idea to have a thread which covers all state bans.

So far, I know of the temporary, but complete ban, in Massachusetts, and a flavor ban announced in Michigan, Washington state, and Rhode Island. The New York ban is not in effect yet, but will be on October 4, I believe. Not sure about the other three states.


If there are more states which I'm not aware of, please list them.

New York Bans Sale of Flavored E-cigarettes, the First State in the U.S. to Do So

Rhode Island Governor Bans Sales Of Flavored Vaping Products

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/09/24/massachusetts-ban-all-vaping-product-sales-months-toughest-state-crackdown/

Michigan's flavored vaping ban in effect: Here are the new rules  

I know this is useless for most of you and if the mods want to delete it please do but I am so frustrated with the media and the politicians and I have no outlet for this, so here we are.

I actually have never smoked or vaped (aside from a trial puff here and there), but my wife and mother both have smoked and do vape. I'm on here because I'm the research and order guy.

They switched from smoking to vaping in 2007 almost at the same time, so it's been 12 years for them.

My mom was a smoker for 50ish years, and as a waitress, she was at about 2 packs a day. She's always had fairly good health because she worked on it, but as she got older you could hear the "smoker's cough" develop and just see the symptoms of aging and the early signs of lung issues. One of her sisters has COPD and another died of lung cancer. She swapped to e-cigs and never had a relapse to cigarettes. Within a year the cough was gone. She is 75 and most people think she is in her 50s. She is active and in great health with only mild diabetes (controlled with diet and I think the minimum dose of a pill, no insulin). She has had chest x-rays and a few other exams and they doubt her when she tells them she is an ex-smoker.

My wife has a similar story. Lighter smoker for a shorter time, but same results. Better health, lungs fully healed from smoking. No side effects from vaping.

Oh and my wife's father was a huge smoker and used e-cigs to completely quit smoking/vaping altogether when the pills/patches/gum wouldn't work at all.

Now, they both utilize products from vapor4life.com that resemble cigarettes and use the "light or ultralight" (I wanna say 1.8% or 1.1%... something like that) equivalent nicotine level. They don't have the giant boxes the "kids" use that produce a room full of vape smoke to be edgy and cool. They vape pretty much the same times they'd take a smoke break though I think less often really... I think they take fewer puffs maybe a little more often? I dunno, it's hard to remember since they haven't smoked in 12 years. My wife will hold hers casually hidden in her hand and get a couple puffs during movies and slowly let the vapor escape and NOBODY knows. Not even me sitting next to her.

Their health is so much better. My mom uses a plain nicotine flavor that tastes like her Winston lights did and my wife has a Menthol that tastes close to her Salem Slim Light 100s. Neither were fond of the fun flavors. I got some 0 nicotine grape the first year and puffed on it once in a while and it was neat (not really inhaling, more like a cigar or a pipe) and that was that.

I am so pissed off at the Trumps and the media for their generalized reporting and the banning of products. I'm pissed at the people/kids who use vaping like its a toy and fun hipster trend and got it banned from airplanes and restaurants. I look at my mom who most likely would have died of lung cancer or be on oxygen by now if not for vaping and I just want to punch these people in the face. How can single digit deaths, which I understand was using sketchy products anyway, trigger fear and a ban when the cigarette companies kill MILLIONS and cause cancer (to smokers and people who are adjacent to smokers via 2nd hand smoke) just have to put a warning label on their product?

Anyway, I'm rambling. I don't know where this goes. Maybe it'll spark discussion. Maybe it'll be deleted and I'll be told I'm an idiot. Maybe someone who isn't sure if vaping will help them quit smoking will see three success stories and take a step in the right direction. I dunno...

Fight the good fight people.  

My understanding of UPS and FEDEX decision not to carry Nicotine supplies to 'the Public' is their 'reluctance' to be burdened with record keeping requirements of signatures of Adults receiving Nicotine products under the new law. USPS decision is easy to understand as they are a 'Pseudo Government Agency'.

Just an 'observation'. Gas Stations, Convenience stores, tobacconists, and other vendors of actual tobacco products are NOT being 'burdened' with the same record keeping requirements at point of sale...and this appears to be a gap in the legislation violating the 'Equal Protection' philosophy the US has seemed to distance itself of late when making laws to 'save us from ourselves'...

I understand Business to Business shipments remain unaffected...its only business to end-users being burdened by this BS regulation.

Am I wrong in my observation?  

Copied from another group.
With permission

I am the owner of Sapphyre Nicotine. I have been in the e-cig and vape business since 2009. This post is a little long but hopefully it is informative for some.

In 2009 the FDA started seizing shipments of electronic cigarettes under the claim that they were drug delivery devices and therefore need to pass FDA approval prior to being marketed and sold in the USA. The industry was just starting out and this was a big blow. Shipments of product were not allowed to enter the USA. Credit card companies were not allowing ecig companies to work with them. It was not looking good for ecigs. A company called Smoking Everywhere sued the FDA and made the argument that ecigs should be regulated as a tobacco product since they contained nicotine which is derived from Tobacco. Njoy joined the litigation and eventually took over when Smoking Everywhere went out of business. In 2010 Njoy won the litigation and ecigs ended up being regulated as tobacco products. This was the best outcome of two evils. The FDA appealed the decision and lost that as well. That’s when the ecig industry really started taking off. Bigger players got into the market and eventually RJR, Altria/Philip Morris, BAT and other big tobacco companies came out with ecig products. They quickly became the dominant sellers in c-stores. The tobacco companies were happy selling tobacco and menthol flavors only. That’s what they knew and that’s what they were good at.

A few years later eliquids and open systems started getting popular. These products were not very popular in c-stores. That is when vape stores started opening up. They were mainly concentrating on open system (eliquids, mods and great tasting flavors). For a short time c-stores tried to sell eliquids, but they didn’t have the know how or the time to educate customers. C-stores were good at selling closed systems and vape stores were good at open systems.

To the uninformed public we are all lumped in as one industry --- electronic cigarettes.

In reality there are 2 different industries that are somewhat related.

A) The ecig/closed system industry: In the USA as of Sep 2019 is a $6.4 billion industry. It is controlled mostly by big tobacco companies. Juul (Altria/PM), Blu (Imperial Tobacco), Vuse (British Tobacco, formerly RJR), Njoy (only independent supplier), Logic (Japan International). 75% of ecigs are sold in C-Stores, drug stores and food stores. As a comparison, regular cigarette sales in the USA are around $80 billion dollars and about 75% comes from c-stores.

While ecigs sales increased at a 40% year over year rate, regular cigarette sales dropped by 7% year over year. That is a large number that is troubling to big tobacco.

The closed system industry sells primarily tobacco and menthol/mint flavors. If flavors were banned it would not impact the industry very much. The companies selling closed systems are not going to join our fight to save flavors. They have no monetary incentive to do so. In addition all of these companies are going to apply for PMTA. They are not going to sue the FDA and risk getting PMTA approval unless it greatly impacts their business.

The vapor/open system industry: In the USA as of sep 2019 is a $2.6 billion industry. It is NOT controlled by a few large companies. There are a lot of hardware and ejuice suppliers. It is mostly sold at adult only vape stores. $1.7 Billion sold at vape stores, $350 million in c-stores and $550 million online. Lots of suppliers, distributors, small businesses are part of this industry. They mostly sell flavored eliquid as opposed to tobacco and menthol flavors.

Having been involved with both the ecig business and the vape business, I can say that they are completely different. The vape industry is getting punished for crimes committed by the ecig industry. Unfortunately we are being lumped in as one. We are the easier one to target. We need to do a much better job getting this message out.

I would also like to make a point regarding zero nicotine flavors being regulated by the FDA. The reason our industry is regulated by the FDA as a tobacco product is because the eliquid contains nicotine. This is the only reason the FDA has authority over these products. Because zero nicotine ejuice does not contain nicotine, it is no longer a tobacco product. While the FDA is going to try and enforce regulation of zero nicotine ejuice as a tobacco product by using the “intent to use” rationale, that argument is simply not valid. The FDA will also not be able to regulate zero nicotine ejuice as a drug/drug device combination either. Ejuice with no nicotine does not cause a change in the body and therefore will not be classified as a drug. This is only my educated opinion. I am not an attorney and am not making any legal claims.

I hope this was somewhat informative to people that have not been involved with ecigs and vapes as long as I have. Feel free to add, correct if you have information that I missed.

Feel free to share  

Alright, so I was reading over a house bill that just passed here in Hawaii "with amendments"

Not exactly sure what the amendments are, so this could be irrelevant, but the concept still holds true.

The legislature imposes an 80% tax on "Tobacco Products" which they have conveniently bundled electronic cigarettes into.

So, what would stop a vape shop from selling all 0 nic juices, and adding nicotine as a separate purchase. For example, I buy a 30mL bottle of juice with zero nic, and then I buy enough nicotine concentrate to bump it up to say 6mg/ml

They sell me the juice for $15 (Hypothetical here) and sell me the nicotine for $1.00

So all that would get taxed is the nicotine because that's the only "Tobacco Product" (by their definition). So we only pay 80 cents in taxes rather than $12.80

If I ran a vape shop, this is what I'd be doing to prevent my customers from taking their business out of state, or worse going back to stinky sticks...

As far as I know, they would be hard pressed to define any of the electronic equipment as tobacco products, or juice without nicotine.

Is selling the nicotine as a separate purchase a viable strategy for defeating these ridiculous laws that are being proposed all over the country?  

I have been mixing my own Juice for the last 1-2 years since my state (NJ) banned all flavored E-juice sales. None of my favorite sellers would ship to me anymore.

I did not stock up. I did not know this postal ban was a thing until 2 hours ago when I noticed the wholesaler I purchase from removed most of its products. Even if I did, the stuff will only last me about 2 years. With the way things are, these kinds of laws rarely get reversed once enacted. I thought the 21 age for buying tobacco products would never catch on and be repealed, but look where we are now. No matter how many angry letters you send or how many signatures you get, nothing will happen.

And so, I am left thinking about what I can and can not get in the future. VG and PG will always be around in bulk as it is not only used for vape juice. The flavoring is the same flavoring used for brewing and baking, so no issue there. The liquid nicotine, specifically the extract and not the salt, is where I question the future availability (the salt is almost definitely out of the question).

Are there any other uses for liquid nicotine or is this it for DYI?

Edit: Apparently VG and PG will also be banned, at least by UPS (link below). I guess nicotine solution is also out of the question there.

UPS: Shipping Tobacco - United States.