How To Get Around Future E Cig Taxes

VAPING TESTIMONIAL
I smoked for over 50 years and it got to the point where I could barely breathe. I knew I had to quit but I also knew I had no will power to do so. Then 6 years ago I tried vaping and it literally saved my life. I still got my nicotine fix and could finally breathe easier and I was not inhaling all those harmful chemicals. I know taking anything into your lungs is harmful but vaping really is the lesser of two evils. And speaking of evils look at these statistics:
Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year
68,557 people died in 2018 of an opioid overdose
in 2017, 39,773 people in the US lost their lives at the point of a gun
In 2016, 10,497 people died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes
30,000 deaths were the result of domestic abuse world wide in 2018.
There are 2,200 alcohol poisoning deaths in the US each year.
so in the last year 631,027 died of unnatural causes, extrapolated over six years that is 3,786,162 deaths
1978 to 1995 a total of 37 Americans were killed by falling vending machines
There have been six confirmed deaths connected to vaping across the US
of these two were from lithium batteries exploding and not the vaping itself
and two were from people experimenting by adding dangerous chemicals to their e-cigarettes.
So in reality only two people died due to vaping.
and you pick vaping as a just cause. Really? where are your values and priorities?
more people die each year from choking or acts of stupidity than vaping.
Of all these causes you could get behind why are you picking the least dangerous and offensive one? I think it's time people learned to pick their battles.
so, 480,000 deaths by cigarettes and why doesn't the government care? Here's why, because for every smoker that dies a new smoker starts. And tobacco is such a cash cow the government doesn't want it to disappear. In Canada the average taxes on a carton of cigarettes is 65%, in the US the taxes are around 45%. That's a lot of free cash. But, if people switch to vaping there are no taxes associated with it. There are no health concerns, it is purely greed.
Here is the thing about statistics: you can make up anything you want or manipulate the facts to get your point of view across. Why? Because they can't be verified. So all the government does is use scare tactics and people are gullible enough to believe it. They have no scientific proof to back up their claims, it is all BS.
Vaping is a much safer alternative to smoking, so why don't they shut down the tobacco industry? MONEY!! MONEY!! MONEY!!
I will defend vaping over cigarettes forever.  

Got this from the world wide web and wanted to share it here.

Apologies if it's already been shared. It's a handy list for reference as well as informative.

E-CIGARETTE POLICY BRIEF: Seven Things Policy Makers Need to Know

All references are hyperlinked to official WHO and government reports, and peer-reviewed studies

The death toll from smoking is enormous

8 million people die every year from smoking-related diseases (WHO), including 480,000 in the USA (CDC) 1.1 billion people smoke worldwide (WHO), including 34 million in the USA (CDC) In the USA, smoking is now concentrated among low-income and LGBTQ people, people living with mental illnesses, and indigenous peoples (American Lung Association)

→ Tobacco smoking is, by far, the world’s leading cause of preventable cancer, heart and lung disease

Harm reduction can reduce that death toll

There is growing independent consensus that e-cigarettes are safer than smoking (35+ official public statements) There is strong evidence that smokers who switch to e-cigarettes have lower risk of cancer, heart & lung disease When not in tobacco smoke, nicotine itself does not cause cancer, heart or lung disease (CDC and IARC/WHO) → Other examples of harm reduction include seat belts, bicycle helmets, parachutes, methadone and condoms

Safer nicotine alternatives help smokers quit

Big pharma nicotine patches & gum (NRTs) cause neither addiction nor cancer, heart or lung disease (FDA; CDC) NRTs increase quit success from 5% (cold turkey) to 9% (on average, smokers try and fail 30 times before quitting) E-cigarettes are two times more effective than NRTs (Cochrane review of 50 peer-reviewed studies worldwide) Many adult vapers “quit by accident” with e-cigarettes (online survey); NRTs only benefit those who want to quit 92% of US all vapers are ADULTS; 4.3 million US adults have quit smoking completely with nicotine vapes (CDC) The adult cessation total may be 5.4 million because 26% of those who quit with e-cigarettes later quit vaping 2.1 million UK smokers (UK government) and 7.5 million EU smokers (Eurobarometer) have quit with e-cigarettes ‘Flavors’ are up to 2.3 times more effective for smoking cessation than tobacco flavor (Yale study) (UK study) 80% of US adult vapers prefer fruit, dessert or candy flavors that don’t remind them of smoking (FDA submission) → Forcing ex-smokers to vape tobacco flavor is like forcing recovering alcoholics to drink rum-flavored club soda

Teen vaping is undesirable, but not a crisis

In the UK, which promotes nicotine vaping for adult smokers, teen “current use” by never-smokers is just 1% US high school “current use” of vaping products dropped 29% between 2019 and March 2020 (CDC/NYTS) By March 2020, only 1 in 20 US high school students vaped daily (4.4%, but 53% of that may be THC not nicotine) US youth & young adult vaping dropped another 32% during the pandemic (JAMA survey up to November 2020) If both surveys are combined, just 1 in 10 US high school-age teens are now “current users” (13%) → If this assumption is correct, then US teen past 30-day ever-use is now lower than it was in 2015 (6 years ago)

Proposed policy “cures” are worse than the “disease”

Proposed policies to reduce teen vaping include higher taxes, ‘flavor’ bans, online sales bans and shipping bans E-cigarette taxes have caused cigarette sales to increase in 8 US states (National Bureau of Economic Research) E-cigarette taxes “increase prenatal smoking and lower smoking cessation during pregnancy” in female smokers Ecig flavor bans increased cigarette sales in San Francisco; Washington; Rhode Island; New York; and Nova Scotia Online sales and mail shipment bans reduce adult access, so are also very likely to strengthen cigarette sales → Higher taxes, ‘flavor’ bans, and online/mail bans protect big tobacco’s main cash cow: deadly cigarettes

Unintended consequences and logical inconsistencies

Probable outcome of ‘flavor’ bans: Teen vapers will switch to THC vaping or to cigarette smoking; many adult vapers will relapse to smoking; fewer smokers will quit; an illicit market (with no age-checks) will arise

The same organizations that claim teen vaping is a gateway to tobacco smoking, also claim tobacco-flavored e-cigarettes repel teens (i.e., banning ‘flavored’ nicotine vapes will reduce teen vaping)

→ Definitions differ: adult current use = daily or regular use; teen current use = past 30-day ever-use

Full context of adult products that teens use, but should not use

US teens are more likely to smoke pot or use illegal drugs than to be “current users” of e-cigarettes (NIDA MTF) US teens are 2X more likely to binge drink than vape “frequently”; 3X more likely to binge drink than vape daily US teen binge drinking causes 3,500 deaths and 119,000 ER visits/year (CDC); US policy response? Age-checks US teen “current smoking” rates dropped 3X faster than historical trends after 2012 (NIDA MTF) → Teens should not vape, smoke, drink or use cannabis (and adults should try to avoid irrational moral panics)  

I was thinking the whole situation in many countries that vaping is straight up banned or illegal....and also countries like USA that is not that extreme but still many regulations going on and anyways we all know the big tobacco companies and what they try to do.

I am sure tho that vaping won't be stoped...u can't stop vaping and all the big tobacco do is to try buy some more time for them cause they know that cigarettes are in their end..

I don't know how long this will last but I am sure vaping will make cigarette smoking obselete and it will go very big...

Europe claims they have a plan to end tobacco use until 2032 or something like that for example....maybe that happens and it would be good cause it's for everyone's good.... but u can't just fight vaping and let smoking still exist...

Vaping will be back and for good....the people slowly start accept it and learn it cause honestly imagine how many smokers are out there and how many vapers...while vaping is much more enjoyable objectively...

We the people didn't support vaping enough...
ok maybe we the vapers did but I mean the majority out there don't......people are scared and they don't like to change their habits easy....even if it's for their own good.

I know politics are corrupted and all that....but some of us live in democracies maybe not perfect but still....if all people wanted to stop smoking and switch into vaping to make their life better then they couldn't stop us...
Worst case they would do it to get votes like they usually do with everything they do... not that they care for us...

So yeah vaping will go very big the next year's..
 

Received this email this morning...

On Monday, November 4, or early in the week, we are anticipating an announcement from the Trump Administration regarding FDA guidance about sales of flavored vapor products. According to recent reports, this guidance is expected to go as far as banning every flavor other than tobacco and menthol. In spite of years of communications from consumers and meetings with industry stakeholders, it is clear that officials remain unknowledgeable about how the vapor industry functions and what customers need.

Two flavors will not sustain independent vapor retailers and
will unnecessarily make vaping less attractive
to people who want to switch away from smoking.


The White House needs to hear from adult vapers and anyone who loves a vaper! A flavor ban won’t protect our children, but it will kill their parents.

We need to
Light Up The Switchboard
At The White House!
Ph: 202-456-1111
(Comment Line)
or
202-456-1414
(Switchboard)


On your call:

The operator will likely ask where they can direct your call Simply tell them that flavored vapor products saved your life, Tobacco and Menthol aren't enough to save small businesses or help people quit smoking; and, tell them “We Vape, We Vote. Be polite, be brief, and say thank you.
On hold? Here's something to do while you wait: Send a Message! Share this Call to Action with your friends, family, and on social media!  

At first I was not too concerned about a flavor ban because my wife and I use no flavoring and I mix my own... But now Romney and some dude named Jeff have a bill on the floor that includes banning refillable cartridges. That scared the holy bejesus out of me. It sounds like they want all e-cigs to be like the "Mojo" (a disposable closed system).

The frustrating part about this current situation is that all of this seems to have started from some black market THC cartridges, which has absolutely nothing to do with vaping. PG is used in children's asthma medication and nicotine is really not much more dangerous than caffeine, but everyone out there thinks that e-cigarettes are killing people.

I think our first mistake was calling them "e-cigarettes" instead of something like "nicotine delivery device"... The name "e-cigarettes" just causes those that are clueless group them in the same category as cigarettes. Big Tobacco and Big Pharma are probably loving this right now. Smoking kills 450-500k people per year, as far as I know vaping has killed 0, but sure, go ahead and put severe restrictions on vaping. I know it saved my life, 12 years ago I could not manage walking up a flight of stairs, every time I laughed it ended in a coughing fit. Then e-cigs came along and all of that changed.

I wish there was some way to educate the public, especially our government officials.  

So I have been coming on here and reading posts from people like say, in Washington State who are desperately trying to come up with something vapable after the flavor bans came crashing down, and I went on a pretty serious letter writing campaign in response. Here is the answer I got:

"Thank you for writing me regarding your thoughts on banning smoke-free alternatives to combustible tobacco. I appreciate you taking the time to share your concerns.

The Trump Administration recently announced plans to ban the sale of most flavored e-cigarettes as officials in Health and Human Services (HHS) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) continue to investigate more than 450 health cases, including six deaths, related to e-cigarette use. According to HHS Secretary Alex Azar, the FDA intends to introduce a policy that will remove the sale of all flavored e-cigarette flavors except tobacco, until otherwise specified.

I understand that this is an important issue for parents and consumers of e-cigarettes in our district. As your Representative, I will continue to monitor this situation as it develops and will keep your thoughts in mind if any legislative action is taken on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives.

Again, thank you for contacting my office about this important issue. If you would like to receive regular updates on this and other matters, please visit my website (www.demings.house.gov/) to sign up for my e-newsletter.

Sincerely,

Val Butler Demings
Member of Congress"

The part that instantly grabbed my attention was this:

FDA intends to introduce a policy that will remove the sale of all flavored e-cigarette flavors except tobacco, until otherwise specified.

Is this going to happen ahead of the deeming regulations? Is the FDA going to come up behind us and slip this over our heads while we aren't looking? And while vaping is coming under a full frontal assault, tobacco companies are laughing as they continue to kill 1200 people a day - because the spotlight ain't on them anymore.  

I do realize that when the hammer comes down it isn't going to come down from a federal level because of the few that choose to make a game of vaping. I realize that it is all about the money they are losing because we have found a way to put the smokes behind us and hopefully a way to keep anyone else from EVER picking up the habit of smoking. Their ONLY concern is lost revenue.

The taxes and/or restrictions are coming, Of that, I have no doubt. We have to do whatever we can to keep them from taxing/restricting us into oblivion.

When the smoking restrictions started it didn't start from the federal level. It started very small and grew into what we have today. It started in small towns, grew to counties and then to states and finally to just about everywhere.

Businesses were no longer allowed to choose how they would handle smoking/no smoking. It became law and they were forced to abide by that law or close their doors.

It happened so slowly that most of us didn't see it coming. We were the frog in the pot of water slowly being brought to a boil. Hopefully we are more aware this time.

Those that make a game of it will have an impact on how vaping is viewed by those that don't understand or even care what vaping is all about. I don't like it but there it is.

I am talking about at a local level. A local busybody, someone that has nothing better to do at the moment, sees something she/he doesn't understand so doesn't approve of. I'm not saying it is right but, let's face it, it happens way to often in every small town in America and sadly, around the world.

Ever hear the term, squeaky wheel gets the grease. Well, that busybody is the squeaky wheel. Every town has at least one and that person has the ear of the "powers that be" in that small town. That person manages to get the "powers that be" to force businesses in that small town to put up signs "No Vaping Allowed" just to appease that busy body. It is not right but it happens every day.

This scenario is being played out in hundreds of thousands of small towns all over the world.

When I joined this forum it was all about helping your fellow vaper. I still see some of that but sadly, I also see so much infighting. We have to work together if we are going to preserve this healthier alternative to smoking for not only ourselves but also for future generations.

The bottom line is. We have to find a way to stand together or we will end up regulated into oblivion. Please think before bashing those that see the writing on the wall. One of the best things one can do is join CASAA so that you may keep up with what is actually happening and then answer those calls to action. If we don't stand up for our rights we WILL lose them.

Please don't let that local busybody win in the end. Thank you for reading my thoughts.  

Flavor ban on flavored cartridges will do kids more harm than good. If a minor wants to vape, smoke cigs, drink, or other things that are against the law and harmful for them no one can stop them except the parents.

What's going to happen is kids will buy blackmarket refilled cartridges or refill their own. I've never used a Juul but it took me 1 minutes on youtube to find out how to refill a empty Juul cartridge.

Most cartridges can be refilled so banning them is really a joke

This ban will only push kids to worse things, that's sad.

The only reason the Feds/state/local government haVE been after vaping is "LOSS OF TAX REVENUE FROM SMOKERS QUITTING". If vaping was taxes as heavy as smoking the Gov. could care less about vape banning.  

Alright, so I was reading over a house bill that just passed here in Hawaii "with amendments"

Not exactly sure what the amendments are, so this could be irrelevant, but the concept still holds true.

The legislature imposes an 80% tax on "Tobacco Products" which they have conveniently bundled electronic cigarettes into.

So, what would stop a vape shop from selling all 0 nic juices, and adding nicotine as a separate purchase. For example, I buy a 30mL bottle of juice with zero nic, and then I buy enough nicotine concentrate to bump it up to say 6mg/ml

They sell me the juice for $15 (Hypothetical here) and sell me the nicotine for $1.00

So all that would get taxed is the nicotine because that's the only "Tobacco Product" (by their definition). So we only pay 80 cents in taxes rather than $12.80

If I ran a vape shop, this is what I'd be doing to prevent my customers from taking their business out of state, or worse going back to stinky sticks...

As far as I know, they would be hard pressed to define any of the electronic equipment as tobacco products, or juice without nicotine.

Is selling the nicotine as a separate purchase a viable strategy for defeating these ridiculous laws that are being proposed all over the country?  

I am just curious... Who here is not stocking up on a lifetime supply of nic and hardware before the May 2020 deadline? And why not? Do you plan to quit vaping? Do you plan on going back to cigarettes? Do you plan on just vaping whatever three or four hunks of junk (i.e. nJoy or Blu type) tobacco flavored garbage the FDA approves?

And if May 2020 wasn't enough of a reason, are you not worried about other things like the bill on the floor to add $2,780 in taxes per 1 liter of 100mg nic?