Concern Over Regulation Killing Vaping

Someone needs to produce a detailed documentary about the documented research about how safe vaping is. Hopefully that will give the general public as well as potential new vapers some education about what is safe and what isn't.

The contaminated products that are circulating on the black market are what's killing people.

Something of this magnitude needs to be put out in the media otherwise I'm afraid that this industry will die out and a lot of shops will go out of business. It's time to take action, the media has demonized vaping. It's come to a point where most folks can't vape in public in peace.

What are your thoughts on how to combat this issue? It's terrible what has happened to everyone that has been sickened or died as a result of vaping bad products. The CDC and FDA can't seem to get a handle on what's really the culprit and the media isn't giving us any details.

I feel perfectly fine as I've been vaping for almost 10 years now and I feel great in fact never better since I quit smoking cigarettes. Now I'm a bit paranoid and wonder if I should just give up vaping. This whole this is getting to me and I can't even vape around my family in peace now.  

I've been away from ECF for awhile but due to the influx of new devices, I recently returned (and got a bunch of new vape gear, but that's another story ).

Was just browsing the New Members forum and I am very disturbed by the amount of posts being made by people who have never smoked asking for advice on how to "blow clouds", "get into vaping" or even "get a better buzz" from vaping.

Of course, the vast majority of replies in these threads are from knowledgeable and helpful ECF'ers telling these poor, ignorant folks that it's probably a bad idea to start vaping 36mg juice in a sub-ohm device if you've never smoked...and that is great!

I just can't help to think that all these young (I'm assuming) non-smokers taking up vaping and "blowing clouds" can't be good for our cause and I find it quite disturbing.


FULL DISCLOSU I currently vape on an SX Mini / Goliath @ .4 ohms and can blow some pretty good clouds, but that's not what it's all about for me...it's about staying off the ciggies.  

I was pretty upset with the wired article and wrote a lengthy response for my blog. Thought I'd share.

[h=2]Wired: http://www. wired. com/2015/04/war-vapings-health-risks-getting-dirty/"

The War Over Vaping’s Health Risks Is Getting Dirty“ - My Response to this Misleading Article[/h]I was really bothered by how misleading this article was, so I’m gonna break it down.

Before I begin, a clarification: There are many issues regarding ecig or “vaporizer” usage, and on many of them, there’s no disagreement between anti-vapers and pro-vapers. For instance, both groups do not want children getting ecigs. However, many people - like in this wired article - muddle a bunch of the issues together, so I’ll be teasing them apart.

For nicotine enthusiasts, 2015 will be remembered as part of a golden era. Less than 10 years after they were introduced in the United States, e-cigarettes have gone relatively unregulated by health agencies, with companies and users making their own rules in a nicotine-laced Wild West. E-cigarette companies have been advertising their products to adults and children alike, claiming to help smokers quit while simultaneously promoting lollipop-flavored liquids…
Reminiscent of glamorous smoking ads of the last century, many of the ads feature celebrity endorsements; in a Blu ad, Jenny McCarthy flirts with the camera while rejoicing that she can now smoke without scaring guys away with her smell. And many of them seem shockingly child-centric…
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1. Advertising to adults: This is a legitimate question. Personally, I’m leaning toward lighter regulations for ecig ads bc numerous studies have shown they are much safer than cigarettes (American Heart Association, x, x, x, x, x ) and can act as an effecting smoking cessation aid, though they are not yet approved for that purpose (American Heart Association, x, x ). But again, a legitimate question.

2. Advertising to kids: No-one wants that. Furthermore, no-one has done that! When critics like the author of the wired article allege that is happening, they almost always are referring to the non-tobacco flavors offered. However, the reason sweet, fruity, and candy flavors are offered is because they are extremely popular amongst adult vapers (x, x). Saying they’re marketed to children is like saying sweet alcoholic drinks are marketed for children because all adults would obviously prefer bourbon. It’s ludicrous. Adults like sweet flavors too.
2b. On a related note: Some have been concerned that ecigs may increase teen use of cigarettes, but the evidence thus far says otherwise. (x, x).

…Last week, the California Department of Public Health launched a anti-vaping campaign called Still Blowing Smoke. And in January, the San Francisco Department of Health launched #CurbIt, pointing out the dangers of e-cigs and their brazen plays to hook kids while warning residents that vaping is only allowed in the same places as smoking.
There’s plenty of evidence behind the campaigns’ claims—studies that link e-cigs to asthma, lung inflammation, MRSA infection risk and exposure to harmful chemicals. But with scant data on the long-term health effects of e-cigarettes and their usefulness as a quitting tool, the ads use a number of classic psychological strategies to help beat back the ire of pro-vapers…
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3. The Still Blowing Smoke ads were themselves blowing smoke. I’d like to discuss three of their main tv ads.
3a. One suggested that ecigs are marketed for kids bc of the flavors, as discussed above.
3b. Another suggested (or rather, alleges) that vaping is a “Big Tobacco” conspiracy! While it’s true that Big Tobacco has bought in to some ecig production, the vast majority of vape businesses are small businesses, such as the brick-and-mortar “vape shops” that are emerging. Perhaps more importantly, this is guilt by association. If Big Tobacco owned Chantix, a popular smoking cessation aid, would that automatically mean it’s evil? And unlike the vast, vast majority of small vape businesses, Big Tobacco has an incentive to make cigs fail: Users are more likely to continue smoking! (Not to mention the very impressive revenue that states gain from tobacco sales, which vaping threatens. x, x)
3c. Finally, they aired a commercial with a small toddler reaching for a vape, presenting that as a risk. Which it is, of course - just like with any other chemical left around the house, be it alcohol, cleaning supplies, or whatever! That isn’t a vaping issue; it’s a parenting issue.
More info on those ads here.
4. The #CurbIt campaign (x) similarly suggests that vapes are part of a Big Tobacco conspiracy and marketed to children (sigh).
4a.What bothered me most was the phrasing they used in one particular ad: “We know e-cigarettes are harmful, just like cigarettes.” While one could argue that it merely meant, “ecigs are also harmful”, it seems to me to be implying that they are just as harmful, which is patently false.
4b. And as others have pointed out: One is likely inhaling more toxic fumes from the curb than from vaping!
4c. Of course, that does leave the question of second-hand-vape exposure, which #CurbIt also alerts the public to. However, the evidence for second-hand vpe exposure is still very thin, with many experts thinking it has a minimal effect if any. (x, x ).

5. To be sure, no-one thinks that vaporizers are completely harmless. Almost nothing is! The question is relative harm (as well as harm-reduction). Are ecigs bad for asthmatics - well, how bad? Certainly they’re better than cigarettes. Might ecigs cause some lung inflammation? Very possibly, but are we going to outlaw every activity or product poses any amount of tissue inflammation?! Clearly that’s an absurd approach. We need to look at overall health, relative health, and common standards in other areas. (For instance, caffeine is addictive, but the public has no qualms with allowing people to use it.)

6. I’ll add that in addition to the lack of studies demonstrating long-term adverse affects, the research on short-term affects are mixed, with many indicating that it is very safe in general, and particularly in contrast to cigarettes.

One CDC ad relies on anecdotal evidence to make its point. It features a story from an e-cigarette user, a 35-year-old wife and mother named Kristy from Tennessee who says she started smoking e-cigarettes hoping to quit combustible cigarettes. Instead, she began to smoke both, until her lung collapsed. The American Vaping Association reportedly called the ad “patently dishonest,” saying that it implies vaping led to lung disease, when in reality Kristy had gone back to smoking cigarettes alone in the months before her lung collapsed. California’s anti-vaping campaign lists toxins that humans once thought were safe—arsenic-laced powdered wigs, radium therapy, and of course cigarettes—and compares them to e-cigs, using a deceptive associative tactic that we’ve called out before.

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7. This is one of the few points where the piece describes one obvious instance of misleading advertising - and the vaping community’s obvious and necessary response to such deception. (And for what it’s worth, there are thousands and thousands of people who credit ecigs with saving their lives #VapingSavedMyLife). But even here, the article’s authors don’t really take the anti-vaping activists to task for it. In fact, they almost seem to endorse that very same tactic:
The problem is, as in the early days of campaigns against cigarettes, there isn’t definitive evidence that e-cigarettes cause long-term harm—a point that pro-vapers will be quick to remind you of. But there also isn’t definitive evidence that they’re safe. And there are many good reasons to assume they’ll be found in time to increase cancer and heart and lung disease.

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The Wired article doesn’t explain what those reasons are… just that it’s a good assumption! (I guess they also think they’re like arsenic-laced powdered wigs.)
What firm science there is to rest on is fairly obvious: E-cigarettes are almost certainly less toxic and carcinogenic than regular cigarettes. But that doesn’t mean that they’re not a health hazard. “We already know you’re breathing in a lot of toxic chemicals, which is bad,” says Glantz. “You’re breathing in a lot of toxic particles, which is bad. You’re taking in nicotine, which is bad. A cigarette is by far and away the most dangerous consumer product ever invented. So to say it’s not as bad as a cigarette is not saying very much.”

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8. This was, to me, perhaps the most balanced paragraph in the article, but even here I’d challenge some aspects. In essence, of course breathing anything other than air isn’t going to be good for you, but it’s a matter of degree for the general public, and relative health for smokers. This might be a good time to mention that the studies thus far indicate that 99% of vapers are smokers or ex-smokers (x, x ). That is, they switched from “the most dangerous consumer product ever invented” to something less harmful, perhaps much, much less harmful, for at least part of the time.

In the absence of incontrovertible evidence, then, public health agencies have to continue to play a little dirty themselves to get citizens to pay attention. In a couple of years, researchers will begin to do association studies to pull out long-term health effects. Until that science rolls in, the, prepare to sit back and enjoy the show. These two camps will be hashing it out for a while.

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9. This another area where I disagree: If there is a lack of evidence, don’t treat it like a deadly substance. If the evidence suggests that it’s getting many people off of a horribly injurious habit, then definitely don’t treat it like a deadly substance.

All in all, very disappointed in the article. It basically boasted propaganda for a cause that may further harm millions. It presents very little actual information, and seems to ignore the information which extols the virtues of vaping over smoking. To be sure, we need more studies, as many of the study’s done so far have been faulty (like the popularized “formaldehyde” study - x) or contain a conflict of interest. Still, much of the evidence thus far is positive, and legislating as though it were negative is unfair to vapers and the millions suffering from tobacco cigarette addiction.
All Wired really seemed to care about discussing is the social media attention the debate is getting - and probably just trying to cash in on that by stirring the pot.
P.s. Of Interest: List of studies related to ecigs and vaping. (x)  

I would bet that the majority of the people that post here are ex-cigarette smokers ... You started vaping as a means to stop smoking cigarettes.

And I am willing to bet that very very few of you would have purchased flavored cigarettes (if they were available) when you were actively smoking cigarettes.

So, my question is .... Why are the majority of the ex-tobacco smokers here buying fruit, breakfast cereal, custard, bakery, candy, etc flavored juice to put in your atomizers?
___________________________

Me ... I DIY my juice which is a mix of various tobacco flavors to include some cigar overtones.

Me ... I just don't personally vape something that smells and tastes like apple pie, etc ... but that's just me.  

hey guys.
as we all know the vaping industry hits on some interesting topics in harm reduction. we are seeing the reality of regulation more and more these days and with that comes a whole new wave of statistics and reasons for and against advocacy of this industry. one thing that i have noticed is that while addressing various concerns as vaping gains popularity is the subject of where minors lie. anticipating regulation it became important to not grant minors access to this technology. more and more often an article will come out admitting the advantages of vaping and the benefits of placing some restrictions on vaping that are consistent with tobacco regulations. these articles admit that as popularity of vaping rises that the number of adolescent smokers is also decreasing, but adolescents who have tried vaping rises.
to me this isn't that bad? i don't believe that nicotine liquid should be available to minors. if a teen is thinking about picking up a disposable nicotine free e-cig, isn't that just one less teen trying to get a cigarette? if anything i believe that it is definitely preferable that this technology be available to a minor that is seriously considering smoking. again, e-cigs are proving to be beneficial to asthmatic users. does no one remember the e-cigs that were produced to sate appetites for sweets and touted as a weight loss aid?
i am seeing this ammendment being made in otherwise positive articles about vaping. it takes me right back to being 16 when i accompanied a younger friend trying to buy nicorette so he could quit smoking. after a very short conversation with the pharmacist he refused to sell the gum to my friend. his response is that he could just get his mom to buy the quit smoking aid like she bought his cigarettes.
i know it is a slippery slope and i would definitely not freely offer nicotine free e-cigs to minors, but isn't the decline in teen smoking worth it?  

Got this from the world wide web and wanted to share it here.

Apologies if it's already been shared. It's a handy list for reference as well as informative.

E-CIGARETTE POLICY BRIEF: Seven Things Policy Makers Need to Know

All references are hyperlinked to official WHO and government reports, and peer-reviewed studies

The death toll from smoking is enormous

8 million people die every year from smoking-related diseases (WHO), including 480,000 in the USA (CDC) 1.1 billion people smoke worldwide (WHO), including 34 million in the USA (CDC) In the USA, smoking is now concentrated among low-income and LGBTQ people, people living with mental illnesses, and indigenous peoples (American Lung Association)

→ Tobacco smoking is, by far, the world’s leading cause of preventable cancer, heart and lung disease

Harm reduction can reduce that death toll

There is growing independent consensus that e-cigarettes are safer than smoking (35+ official public statements) There is strong evidence that smokers who switch to e-cigarettes have lower risk of cancer, heart & lung disease When not in tobacco smoke, nicotine itself does not cause cancer, heart or lung disease (CDC and IARC/WHO) → Other examples of harm reduction include seat belts, bicycle helmets, parachutes, methadone and condoms

Safer nicotine alternatives help smokers quit

Big pharma nicotine patches & gum (NRTs) cause neither addiction nor cancer, heart or lung disease (FDA; CDC) NRTs increase quit success from 5% (cold turkey) to 9% (on average, smokers try and fail 30 times before quitting) E-cigarettes are two times more effective than NRTs (Cochrane review of 50 peer-reviewed studies worldwide) Many adult vapers “quit by accident” with e-cigarettes (online survey); NRTs only benefit those who want to quit 92% of US all vapers are ADULTS; 4.3 million US adults have quit smoking completely with nicotine vapes (CDC) The adult cessation total may be 5.4 million because 26% of those who quit with e-cigarettes later quit vaping 2.1 million UK smokers (UK government) and 7.5 million EU smokers (Eurobarometer) have quit with e-cigarettes ‘Flavors’ are up to 2.3 times more effective for smoking cessation than tobacco flavor (Yale study) (UK study) 80% of US adult vapers prefer fruit, dessert or candy flavors that don’t remind them of smoking (FDA submission) → Forcing ex-smokers to vape tobacco flavor is like forcing recovering alcoholics to drink rum-flavored club soda

Teen vaping is undesirable, but not a crisis

In the UK, which promotes nicotine vaping for adult smokers, teen “current use” by never-smokers is just 1% US high school “current use” of vaping products dropped 29% between 2019 and March 2020 (CDC/NYTS) By March 2020, only 1 in 20 US high school students vaped daily (4.4%, but 53% of that may be THC not nicotine) US youth & young adult vaping dropped another 32% during the pandemic (JAMA survey up to November 2020) If both surveys are combined, just 1 in 10 US high school-age teens are now “current users” (13%) → If this assumption is correct, then US teen past 30-day ever-use is now lower than it was in 2015 (6 years ago)

Proposed policy “cures” are worse than the “disease”

Proposed policies to reduce teen vaping include higher taxes, ‘flavor’ bans, online sales bans and shipping bans E-cigarette taxes have caused cigarette sales to increase in 8 US states (National Bureau of Economic Research) E-cigarette taxes “increase prenatal smoking and lower smoking cessation during pregnancy” in female smokers Ecig flavor bans increased cigarette sales in San Francisco; Washington; Rhode Island; New York; and Nova Scotia Online sales and mail shipment bans reduce adult access, so are also very likely to strengthen cigarette sales → Higher taxes, ‘flavor’ bans, and online/mail bans protect big tobacco’s main cash cow: deadly cigarettes

Unintended consequences and logical inconsistencies

Probable outcome of ‘flavor’ bans: Teen vapers will switch to THC vaping or to cigarette smoking; many adult vapers will relapse to smoking; fewer smokers will quit; an illicit market (with no age-checks) will arise

The same organizations that claim teen vaping is a gateway to tobacco smoking, also claim tobacco-flavored e-cigarettes repel teens (i.e., banning ‘flavored’ nicotine vapes will reduce teen vaping)

→ Definitions differ: adult current use = daily or regular use; teen current use = past 30-day ever-use

Full context of adult products that teens use, but should not use

US teens are more likely to smoke pot or use illegal drugs than to be “current users” of e-cigarettes (NIDA MTF) US teens are 2X more likely to binge drink than vape “frequently”; 3X more likely to binge drink than vape daily US teen binge drinking causes 3,500 deaths and 119,000 ER visits/year (CDC); US policy response? Age-checks US teen “current smoking” rates dropped 3X faster than historical trends after 2012 (NIDA MTF) → Teens should not vape, smoke, drink or use cannabis (and adults should try to avoid irrational moral panics)  

Hi guys, I'm back!

I'm still vaping away, and happy as ever to be doing it. You guys might remember me, it's been a while. My mom died from lung cancer and I haven't smoked a cigarette since. But I'm humbly asking for help from the experts, because I'm at a loss.

I vape on a Vandy Vape Berserker MTL vape pen, and I buy the coils from elementvape.com or electrictobacconist.com. I vape salts, 24mg. This works BEAUTIFULLY for me. I'm satisfied, it's easy, I have zero interest in building things or using tiny screwdrivers or any of that. Maybe once all the little people in the house can use the bathroom without my assistance I'll have time to devote to coil building, but I digress....

So onto my issue... No one is selling the coils for this vape pen! It's out of stock everywhere and I am freaking out. I don't want to use pod systems, I live way out in BFE and don't want to constantly be waiting on shipments.

Can anyone tell me SPECIFIC devices to buy that 1. work with salts and 2. have coils that don't need to be built. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE?!?! And dumb it down, talk slowly, I don't know all the lingo of the cool kids.

Thank you guys in advance. You all were very kind to me while my mom was dying, and I appreciate it so much.  

I always wanted to make this thread. Here I go, 'cuz I've had it up to "here"..........

I'm a member of a lot of different forums that aren't vaping (or even smoking) related. And let me tell you, people freakin' HAAAAAAAAAAAAATE vapers.

It's seems like out in the real world it's not nearly as bad because people aren't anonymous. But on the non-vaping internet, it's totally different. Smokers and non-smokers alike believe and parrot all the stupid lies the media has spread over the years...all of them. They did a great job at brainwashing (as they always do).

On occasion, when it fits, I'll either mention that I'm a vaper or, if someone brings up being a smoker and having to/wanting to quit, I'll throw a suggestion their way to consider switching to vaping and hooooly COW you would think that I mentioned the most terrible thing a person could ever mention, ever!

People will attack with all the usual lies...
That 'll kill ya! What're you stupid?! Those batteries blow up ALL.THE.TIME! Are you crazy?! Didn't you hear about all those people dying from vaping! (referring to "EVALI" and black market cartridges....LAST YEAR).
That's just as bad as smoking, probably worse! You better quit NOW!
Didn't you hear? That stuff has antifreeze in it, stupid! ...on and on and on. And it's no use arguing, their minds are set and it's all "facts" because why would the media lie? Right? And after all, it looks like smoke, so it's gotta be at least just as bad, right?

Meanwhile here at ECF we're vapin' away, some of 10+ years, most of us probably at least 5 years, without issues at all. Many of us even with stories of how vaping either saved our lives or improved them greatly (with some doctors even agreeing ins some cases).

But you can't tell them that. NO SIREE! THEY KNOW the truth! You're just an idiot who knows nothing and inhales poison! They heard it on the news, the talk shows, social media, blah, blah, blah. That makes them experts!

They would probably be a lot more open to me talking about and suggesting illicit drug use than [GASP] vaping nicotine

It's a real shame and I just don't see this changing because it's not just misinformation, it really is brainwashing.

So I gotta hand it to ya, American Media,
you did a GREAT..JOB! Congratulations!
You earned every dollar you made from it, I'm sure, you losers.

Well, that's the end of my rant.

Thank you, and have a happy 2021

VAPE 'EM WHILE YA GOT 'EM  

I'm looking at all the news reports just running and jumping with joy about the study that came out about teen vaping use today. I believe this was a catalyst that is going to get the general, non-informed "I'll do whatever you say and where do I check the voting ballot again??" public, right behind strict regulations and/or banning. My, how powerful manipulation is with what was once the minority, but what I'm afraid is now the majority in this country.

What is getting me is that almost ALL the commenters are stating that these are bad, very very bad and just look at "all the reports that are coming out about negative side effects." Where are they seeing reports about scientific study results regarding negative side effects and a link to cancer? Or is this just another case of "those people" that want to tell us all how to live imagining all these studies (one even quoted they cause cancer according to recent studies) in their little pea-sized non-independent thinking brains? I am just amazed at how the mind works with some people. How they can just "want something to be" and so, in their little minds, they have fabricated all these studies showing negative side effects and direct causes to cancer. Really?

I'm sorry if I sound ticked off. I'm just so sick and tired of watching a vast majority of Americans lose their ability to think for themselves and that are so content to be LAZY and just believe whatever it is they hear from the media. You know, you just can't fight stupid.  

I have always vaped anywhere between 15-20mls of juice a day. Three weeks ago I finally convinced my brother to switch from cigs to a mesh tank vape kit. He vapes anywhere between 45-55mls of juice per day. Should I be concerned about it? He is doing fine, bit it seems like a bit much. What do you guys think?