Tax Hikes In Many States

Here in Oregon we have several bills that, if passed, would more or less make vaping illegal in its current form, and I know this isn't just happening here. I have to wonder how far they will be able to go with the bans and regulations, how "effective" they will be and how best to prepare for them. I think it's likely they will make high concentration nicotine solutions impossible to obtain for consumers, so at the least, it's probably a good call to stock up on unflavored nicotine, especially considering that whatever ejuice they do allow will no doubt be taxed to the point of being unaffordable.

The rest of their proposed bans would, in my mind (hopefully) be ineffectual in the long term. They want to ban flavored ejuice, but if the juice is zero nicotine, I don't see how they could get away with that since of course they can't ban PG, VG, or flavors, they just couldn't get away with that, yet, and the same goes for things like kanthal and cotton/rayon, too many uses outside of vaping.

They want to ban online sales from vape companies to our state which we all know would be a devastating blow to vapers. As for mechanical/regulated mods and other gear, what's to stop companies from selling them with a disclaimer that they are intended only for ornamental purposes, or for zero nic juice. What's to stop a vape shop from renaming itself "Functional Mechanical and Electronic Galleries" who operate on the assumption that people only use their products to vape zero nic juice.

It's insane to me that in a country that glorifies alcohol abuse, and has finally started to see the light on decriminalizing ........., that all this hysteria comes up about vaping, which is possibly the most benign chemical someone could enjoy (probably better for you than caffeine) and has given millions a way of breaking free from a habit that is far worse... you think the world is getting somewhere, but then something new comes out and the same old ignorance and fear rears its ugly head all over again, which is in turn milked by our politicians and backed by big tobacco, it all seems to be coming together for a perfect storm and it's not looking good in Oregon.

Your thoughts, what are you doing to prepare? What do you think is necessary?  

I have been mixing my own Juice for the last 1-2 years since my state (NJ) banned all flavored E-juice sales. None of my favorite sellers would ship to me anymore.

I did not stock up. I did not know this postal ban was a thing until 2 hours ago when I noticed the wholesaler I purchase from removed most of its products. Even if I did, the stuff will only last me about 2 years. With the way things are, these kinds of laws rarely get reversed once enacted. I thought the 21 age for buying tobacco products would never catch on and be repealed, but look where we are now. No matter how many angry letters you send or how many signatures you get, nothing will happen.

And so, I am left thinking about what I can and can not get in the future. VG and PG will always be around in bulk as it is not only used for vape juice. The flavoring is the same flavoring used for brewing and baking, so no issue there. The liquid nicotine, specifically the extract and not the salt, is where I question the future availability (the salt is almost definitely out of the question).

Are there any other uses for liquid nicotine or is this it for DYI?

Edit: Apparently VG and PG will also be banned, at least by UPS (link below). I guess nicotine solution is also out of the question there.

UPS: Shipping Tobacco - United States.  

Hi guys! First of all sorry for my bad english. I started to vape at February and I love it, thanks to the e-cig I don't want a tobacco cigarette anymore. By the way, for some reason, about 15 days ago I realized that e-liquid nicotine gives me agitation and jittery that I've never had before. Sure, nicotine is a stimulant like coffeine but as we know it's a relaxant, too. And this stimulant/relaxant combo is what I've had with tobacco cigarettes and with vaping until 15 days ago. To be sure that (liquid) nicotine is the culprit, I've tried everything. With nic free e-liquid I have no agitation, even though I become a little sad because actually I can't stay without nicotine for a whole day. You may say: "reduce the nic dosage" and that's what I did, but unfortunately even with 1.5 mg/ml I have this issue And I don't vape too much. So I decided to do another test: for one day I smoked tobacco cigarettes. Guess what? No agitation and jittery. This is so weird, I can't believe it! Because I can expect it if I vape too much at high nic dosage, but I vape at only 3 mg/ml and not too much. And as I said before even with 1.5 mg/ml. I started to vape at February with 9 mg/ml, then I gradually lowered the dose without any problem (until 15 days ago). Also, I've tried different nicotine e-liquids but nothing has changed. Now I don't know what to think other than I suddenly become intolerant to liquid nicotine, even though I don't have nausea, dizziness, headache, stomach problems and other symptoms that make me think: "you're intolerant for sure". What do you think guys? Is there something that I can do? I don't want stop vaping, especially because I don't want to smoke again Thank you so much in advance guys.  

In an email from Innokin today, was a link to today's Vaping Weekly by Benedict Jones. In addition to more news about Canada's up-coming restrictions on most flavored vape products...the following was included, about Washington, DC:

"On Tuesday, June 15, The District of Columbia Council voted to prohibit the sale of flavoured vaping and tobacco products (including menthol cigarettes and cigars).

The bill will be voted on a second time Tuesday, June 29, but it is expected to pass this stage without significant change. After the second vote, the bill must be approved by the mayor, and pass a 30-day congressional review period before the law takes effect.

The bill also covers synthetic nicotine products, which have, at times, been suggested as a way of side-stepping legislation which restricts “tobacco products” in the U.S. Since synthetic nicotine products are covered by the bill, it would appear that other next-generation nicotine products, such as pouches, will be affected by the flavour ban."

So, little by little it continues....  

Hi,

Unfortunately they are about to ban nicotine E juice in my country in 6 months time. I was stocking up on my regular E juice but this is not really a long term feasible solution.

Luckily I vape unflavoured, so I figure it shouldn't be too hard to make myself.

I had a bit of a look around and found liquid nicotine, up to 250mg/ml, or nicotine salts, both USP, whatever that means.

Just wondering what the best nicotine product would be for long term storage and quality. If someone could recommend a vendor and product that would be great. I normally vape 70/30 pg juice from Heather's heavenly vapes.

I would prefer a liquid than a salt unless there is a big difference in shelf life.

Thanks for your advice  

...if you do nothing.

Federal Flavor Ban & Vape Taxation
Goes Up for Vote This
Thursday 2/27/2020 in the House.
HR 2339

Go here to notify your Congress people and the President (easy peasy)...
Vaping Prohibition & Taxation is On the Table in Congress

From CASAA...
••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
"This [Federal Flavor Ban] legislation is being supported by an army of Bloomberg-funded anti-harm reduction groups to the tune of $160,000,000.

At the same time, it is likely that a tax bill, HR 4742, which is attempting to enact tax parity between vapor products and combustible cigarettes, will also be taken up by the full House."
••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••
​
Text - H.R.4742 - 116th Congress (2019-2020): To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to impose a tax on nicotine used in vaping, etc.
‘‘“(h) Nicotine.—On taxable nicotine, manufactured in or imported into the United States, there shall be imposed a tax equal to the dollar amount specified in section 5701(b)(1) (or, if greater, $50.33) per 1,810 milligrams of nicotine (and a proportionate tax at the like rate on any fractional part thereof).”
Click to expand...

You wanna pay $2,780.00 extra (plus any state taxes)
for 1 liter of 100mg/ml nic base?

You wanna be forced to vape "tobacco" flavors only?​

By all means, do nothing.

​
 

Copied from another group.
With permission

I am the owner of Sapphyre Nicotine. I have been in the e-cig and vape business since 2009. This post is a little long but hopefully it is informative for some.

In 2009 the FDA started seizing shipments of electronic cigarettes under the claim that they were drug delivery devices and therefore need to pass FDA approval prior to being marketed and sold in the USA. The industry was just starting out and this was a big blow. Shipments of product were not allowed to enter the USA. Credit card companies were not allowing ecig companies to work with them. It was not looking good for ecigs. A company called Smoking Everywhere sued the FDA and made the argument that ecigs should be regulated as a tobacco product since they contained nicotine which is derived from Tobacco. Njoy joined the litigation and eventually took over when Smoking Everywhere went out of business. In 2010 Njoy won the litigation and ecigs ended up being regulated as tobacco products. This was the best outcome of two evils. The FDA appealed the decision and lost that as well. That’s when the ecig industry really started taking off. Bigger players got into the market and eventually RJR, Altria/Philip Morris, BAT and other big tobacco companies came out with ecig products. They quickly became the dominant sellers in c-stores. The tobacco companies were happy selling tobacco and menthol flavors only. That’s what they knew and that’s what they were good at.

A few years later eliquids and open systems started getting popular. These products were not very popular in c-stores. That is when vape stores started opening up. They were mainly concentrating on open system (eliquids, mods and great tasting flavors). For a short time c-stores tried to sell eliquids, but they didn’t have the know how or the time to educate customers. C-stores were good at selling closed systems and vape stores were good at open systems.

To the uninformed public we are all lumped in as one industry --- electronic cigarettes.

In reality there are 2 different industries that are somewhat related.

A) The ecig/closed system industry: In the USA as of Sep 2019 is a $6.4 billion industry. It is controlled mostly by big tobacco companies. Juul (Altria/PM), Blu (Imperial Tobacco), Vuse (British Tobacco, formerly RJR), Njoy (only independent supplier), Logic (Japan International). 75% of ecigs are sold in C-Stores, drug stores and food stores. As a comparison, regular cigarette sales in the USA are around $80 billion dollars and about 75% comes from c-stores.

While ecigs sales increased at a 40% year over year rate, regular cigarette sales dropped by 7% year over year. That is a large number that is troubling to big tobacco.

The closed system industry sells primarily tobacco and menthol/mint flavors. If flavors were banned it would not impact the industry very much. The companies selling closed systems are not going to join our fight to save flavors. They have no monetary incentive to do so. In addition all of these companies are going to apply for PMTA. They are not going to sue the FDA and risk getting PMTA approval unless it greatly impacts their business.

The vapor/open system industry: In the USA as of sep 2019 is a $2.6 billion industry. It is NOT controlled by a few large companies. There are a lot of hardware and ejuice suppliers. It is mostly sold at adult only vape stores. $1.7 Billion sold at vape stores, $350 million in c-stores and $550 million online. Lots of suppliers, distributors, small businesses are part of this industry. They mostly sell flavored eliquid as opposed to tobacco and menthol flavors.

Having been involved with both the ecig business and the vape business, I can say that they are completely different. The vape industry is getting punished for crimes committed by the ecig industry. Unfortunately we are being lumped in as one. We are the easier one to target. We need to do a much better job getting this message out.

I would also like to make a point regarding zero nicotine flavors being regulated by the FDA. The reason our industry is regulated by the FDA as a tobacco product is because the eliquid contains nicotine. This is the only reason the FDA has authority over these products. Because zero nicotine ejuice does not contain nicotine, it is no longer a tobacco product. While the FDA is going to try and enforce regulation of zero nicotine ejuice as a tobacco product by using the “intent to use” rationale, that argument is simply not valid. The FDA will also not be able to regulate zero nicotine ejuice as a drug/drug device combination either. Ejuice with no nicotine does not cause a change in the body and therefore will not be classified as a drug. This is only my educated opinion. I am not an attorney and am not making any legal claims.

I hope this was somewhat informative to people that have not been involved with ecigs and vapes as long as I have. Feel free to add, correct if you have information that I missed.

Feel free to share  

Why ? - The many varieties of devices, flavors, and nicotine strengths still available in many places not contaminated by the political whores who apparently hate all tobacco so much that they are willing to jeopardize the lives of many thousands, if not millions, of ex and even current smokers, by killing off the vape industry in favor of their hypocritical agendas of tobacco control.

The fact that vaping tobacco has been proven to be less toxic than lit tobacco products is, to them, all the more reason to restrict and eventually eliminate it. {As has been done in India where all vaping is a crime}

Vaping has been and is still being used by many to wean their way off of nicotine by gradually lowering nicotine concentration - For others who do not want to quit completely vaping offers a much safer alternative to the toxic stew present in lit tobacco, especially cigarettes.

And the fact that vaping for flavor with zero nicotine is available - seems to give them all the more reason to outlaw flavors ?!??!?!

Do they know what they are doing you may ask? - Sure they do, and its all about money. Apparently they make more in tax revenues from old fashioned cigarettes - Still as tax rates go up everywhere on vape products, they may decide there is enough to be made to keep it legal. But don't fool yourself, it has nothing to do with 'saving the children'. In a nation where it may soon become easier, in some places, to buy marijuana than tobacco - I ask who is going to save the children from the political whores who can no longer keep following the mantra that "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

Who will save the children from them ?

And no I am not against marijuana legalization - but still must point out that tobacco, a mental stimulant, is being downgraded by a drug often used to get 'stoned'

Maybe this is what they want - Not a thinking population of voters - When a stoned population is easier to fool!  

There are so many vape shops in my immediate area now that I can't even keep track of them all.

Even though I still qualify as a newbie vaper, since I've only been vaping for a few months, I now know enough about vaping to know a terrible vape store when I see one.

I was in a vape shop some weeks ago, and what I witnessed shocked me.

This vape store sold the typical premium juices and brands that you'll find everywhere and they also sold some hardware, like clones and mods.

They also had their own brand of cheap, in house juice which they sold and which they would also give out to customers as part of their rewards system, where customers who earn enough points will get a small, free bottle of juice.

While I was in the store looking around, another customer was there and they were getting a free bottle of that in house juice, and they were sampling different flavors, to see which one they wanted.

The sales person asked the customer what nicotine level they wanted, and after the customer told them, I saw the sales person walk towards the middle-back of the shop, and in less than 30 seconds, the juice was mixed and ready to go. The sales person was just eye balling the nicotine content! And it was being mixed right there in the open, in the middle of the shop!

I don't need to be an advanced vaper to know that this is not good at all, and I am shocked that somebody with such bad knowledge would even dare to open their own vape store. Needless to say, a vape store like that probably won't stay in business for long, when there are so many other better options around, with more knowledgeable people working in them.  

So I wonder what the logic is behind Amazon being okay with selling those heat not burn devices but not an e-cigarette I mean I understand they're not wanting to sell Ejuice like an actual tobacco products and instead only sell the separate components without the nicotine but wouldn't the heat not burn device be considered an ends device as well or is there some subtle difference that I'm not really understanding