Uh Ho!!

Alright, so I was reading over a house bill that just passed here in Hawaii "with amendments"

Not exactly sure what the amendments are, so this could be irrelevant, but the concept still holds true.

The legislature imposes an 80% tax on "Tobacco Products" which they have conveniently bundled electronic cigarettes into.

So, what would stop a vape shop from selling all 0 nic juices, and adding nicotine as a separate purchase. For example, I buy a 30mL bottle of juice with zero nic, and then I buy enough nicotine concentrate to bump it up to say 6mg/ml

They sell me the juice for $15 (Hypothetical here) and sell me the nicotine for $1.00

So all that would get taxed is the nicotine because that's the only "Tobacco Product" (by their definition). So we only pay 80 cents in taxes rather than $12.80

If I ran a vape shop, this is what I'd be doing to prevent my customers from taking their business out of state, or worse going back to stinky sticks...

As far as I know, they would be hard pressed to define any of the electronic equipment as tobacco products, or juice without nicotine.

Is selling the nicotine as a separate purchase a viable strategy for defeating these ridiculous laws that are being proposed all over the country?  

Anyone have any idea about the headlines reading the China is encouraging businesses to stop selling e-cigarettes online I can't find anything on whether that pertains to other countries or just within the country... I believe there's been a mandate but there hasn't been any talk of enforcement and I don't really know how things work over there  

One is being given away in a prize draw by Molin Shop.

For me, thank you but no thank you. I like Molin Shop for their DIY stuff and good service but this.... err no thanks!  

Franklin County mother sues JUUL, vape shop over twin daughters alleged addiction to vaping

A Franklin County mother is suing e-cigarette manufacturer JUUL Labs, a Hilliard vape shop and its owners – alleging that her twin daughters became addicted to vaping through JUUL’s online marketing campaigns. The lawsuit also alleges that the Hilliard Smoke House allowed the girls to purchase the product with ease – despite being underage.​

Nasty development. Vape shops can't afford expensive lawyers.  

Many sites are starting to not ship anything vape related to NYC, regardless of what you order including coils. Not every B&M shop carries everything I drip at home and my current walk around da is the Vaporesso Cascade One plus.

Things are bleak if you have to search for a site that will ship you coils. Eventually, I'm going to have things shipped to a friend in jersey.  

Copied from another group.
With permission

I am the owner of Sapphyre Nicotine. I have been in the e-cig and vape business since 2009. This post is a little long but hopefully it is informative for some.

In 2009 the FDA started seizing shipments of electronic cigarettes under the claim that they were drug delivery devices and therefore need to pass FDA approval prior to being marketed and sold in the USA. The industry was just starting out and this was a big blow. Shipments of product were not allowed to enter the USA. Credit card companies were not allowing ecig companies to work with them. It was not looking good for ecigs. A company called Smoking Everywhere sued the FDA and made the argument that ecigs should be regulated as a tobacco product since they contained nicotine which is derived from Tobacco. Njoy joined the litigation and eventually took over when Smoking Everywhere went out of business. In 2010 Njoy won the litigation and ecigs ended up being regulated as tobacco products. This was the best outcome of two evils. The FDA appealed the decision and lost that as well. That’s when the ecig industry really started taking off. Bigger players got into the market and eventually RJR, Altria/Philip Morris, BAT and other big tobacco companies came out with ecig products. They quickly became the dominant sellers in c-stores. The tobacco companies were happy selling tobacco and menthol flavors only. That’s what they knew and that’s what they were good at.

A few years later eliquids and open systems started getting popular. These products were not very popular in c-stores. That is when vape stores started opening up. They were mainly concentrating on open system (eliquids, mods and great tasting flavors). For a short time c-stores tried to sell eliquids, but they didn’t have the know how or the time to educate customers. C-stores were good at selling closed systems and vape stores were good at open systems.

To the uninformed public we are all lumped in as one industry --- electronic cigarettes.

In reality there are 2 different industries that are somewhat related.

A) The ecig/closed system industry: In the USA as of Sep 2019 is a $6.4 billion industry. It is controlled mostly by big tobacco companies. Juul (Altria/PM), Blu (Imperial Tobacco), Vuse (British Tobacco, formerly RJR), Njoy (only independent supplier), Logic (Japan International). 75% of ecigs are sold in C-Stores, drug stores and food stores. As a comparison, regular cigarette sales in the USA are around $80 billion dollars and about 75% comes from c-stores.

While ecigs sales increased at a 40% year over year rate, regular cigarette sales dropped by 7% year over year. That is a large number that is troubling to big tobacco.

The closed system industry sells primarily tobacco and menthol/mint flavors. If flavors were banned it would not impact the industry very much. The companies selling closed systems are not going to join our fight to save flavors. They have no monetary incentive to do so. In addition all of these companies are going to apply for PMTA. They are not going to sue the FDA and risk getting PMTA approval unless it greatly impacts their business.

The vapor/open system industry: In the USA as of sep 2019 is a $2.6 billion industry. It is NOT controlled by a few large companies. There are a lot of hardware and ejuice suppliers. It is mostly sold at adult only vape stores. $1.7 Billion sold at vape stores, $350 million in c-stores and $550 million online. Lots of suppliers, distributors, small businesses are part of this industry. They mostly sell flavored eliquid as opposed to tobacco and menthol flavors.

Having been involved with both the ecig business and the vape business, I can say that they are completely different. The vape industry is getting punished for crimes committed by the ecig industry. Unfortunately we are being lumped in as one. We are the easier one to target. We need to do a much better job getting this message out.

I would also like to make a point regarding zero nicotine flavors being regulated by the FDA. The reason our industry is regulated by the FDA as a tobacco product is because the eliquid contains nicotine. This is the only reason the FDA has authority over these products. Because zero nicotine ejuice does not contain nicotine, it is no longer a tobacco product. While the FDA is going to try and enforce regulation of zero nicotine ejuice as a tobacco product by using the “intent to use” rationale, that argument is simply not valid. The FDA will also not be able to regulate zero nicotine ejuice as a drug/drug device combination either. Ejuice with no nicotine does not cause a change in the body and therefore will not be classified as a drug. This is only my educated opinion. I am not an attorney and am not making any legal claims.

I hope this was somewhat informative to people that have not been involved with ecigs and vapes as long as I have. Feel free to add, correct if you have information that I missed.

Feel free to share  

I've ordered lots of mods from a number of different countries. China, Indonesia, Russia, Australia, the UK, Canada...and now France.

I ordered a mod from a vape shop in France. Made it out of France OK. Then Monday (December 30, 2019) US Customs and Border Protection held up my parcel. Not a word since. I looked at the USCBP website. It lists a number of prohibited items, vaping equipment not being one of them.

I don't know what to do now. The Postal Service is no help. Since they (USCBP) haven't contacted me, I'm not sure that I should reach out to them first.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
 

A few weeks ago I purchased two UD Goliaths the same time the Lemo 2 was on pre-order. Well, it had been really bugging my that I just did not go ahead a buy one when I had the chance. I debated on selling the Goliath on eBay, but then I thought to ask this B&M up the street if they would want to trade with me. I had talked to the owner a few days before and he told me that he had really wanted to get some for his case, so I knew that the odds were in my favor. Anyway, I was just up there as asked him if he would be interested. Guess what? I have the Lemo 2 It was really cool of him to do that considering he is in the business to make money, not trade RTA's This vapes for you Jay!!  

So I walked into a B&M today for the first time. They have a couple of cabinets full of supplies and juices. All the workers seemed really snobby! They asked what I vape on and pulled out my istick 50w w/ Subtank Mini. They basically scoffed at me. Not only that, but they are selling the Subtank Mini for $85!! That's almost double the regular price.

I casually mentioned that the price might be wrong, and they said nope. They said, and I quote,

"New people have no idea what prices look like. They don't know it's cheaper online, so don't let anyone know. We gotta make money somehow."

....seriously? I understand markups for profit, but this? It's ridiculous. They also sell 15ml juices for $25. They have a small display case of space jam, but when I asked for Andromada, they kept insisting their juices are better.

Has anyone experienced shops like this?

I HIGHLY recommend if you're new, check out stuff online first. I'm all for supporting your community, but beware of stuff like this. Check out online prices just so you know what to compare them to!  

In 2006, the World Health Organization (WHO) developed the Framework Convention on Tobacco Control (FCTC) in order to promote policies to member countries with the aim of reducing tobacco use. Representatives of member countries meet every two years to discuss improvements and implementation of the FCTC. This meeting is known as the Conference of Parties (COP), and the ninth such meeting, COP 9, will occur between November 9-13, 2021.

The WHO is recommending extreme measures like high taxation, flavor bans, and outright prohibition as their preferred actions to curb the adoption of these safer nicotine products. To put a finer point on it, the WHO’s influence is being disproportionately leveled at low- and middle-income countries (LIMCs) which are home to more than 80% of the world’s population of people who smoke.

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